Unfortunately there is no hope for 4th gen nugus with the amount of ggs top companies are putting out

Quote from K-PL

Yes, they own many companies that debut and produce groups.

And of course Kakao contributed to the success of these companies. They own part of Starship and StayC's company. To get ownership, they inject money, get on the Board, and decide what happens in the company. Regarding Cube, which they don't even own them, Kakao is giving them $60 million USD won over 5 years for the distribution rights. This is money other small companies don't have access to, to help produce and market their groups.

Cube has (G)I-DLE who were doing well even before the Kakao deal. They also have Lightsum who are flopping and not benefitting from that $60 mil.

Quote from wsoet

It looks like it's time to bring out the chart again:

I'm not inherently opposed to a ".5" breakdown of generations, but if you're using that model, then T-ara, Secret, After School, and 4Minute are 2.5th Generation as well, and thus a different generation than "true" 2nd Generation groups such as Brown Eyed Girls, Wonder Girls, and SNSD.

Hell, if we allow for the 3.5th Generation, then Red Velvet, Twice, and Blackpink aren't even in the same generation.

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You can believe in a ".5" breakdown of generations (not saying you should, I don't) and still not take a chart that defines 3rd gen as 3 years long as gospel. That chart looks back on how 1st generation, 2nd generation are perceived much later, in terms of how 3rd and 4th gen are perceived it's incredibly outdated. Their 3.5 gg lineup is just Dream Catcher and Blackpink now. That doesn't require it's own grouping just cause the chart's template means it's more neat if they did.

Quote from ellenote

The market for girl groups is becoming extremely over-saturated, It's no wonder so many companies are struggling to stay afloat. I really don't know why the Big 3 needs all of these new groups. I really don't get it.

Money, I mean its not that hard. Monopoly!

The 3rd Gen had GFriend and later OhMyGirl , nugus who did make it, plus Laboum, whose #1 is still being the butt of jokes.

But 4th Gen nugus only had CSR's #1, which made the whole Music bank #1 a bad joke.

It is getting more certain that CSR's #1 in Musi bank will be the only #1 by nugu girlgroups in the 4th gen.

Quote from Dreamer95

The hype vanishes as soon as new shiny big company gg drops. Cause people have only a limited attention span for idol groups, you can't expect people to keep up with so many groups.

It's also due to the fact that everything has become a competition for the fans. I've already said it several times but Kpop fans have a behavior really similar to that of sports fans.

I do agree that the oversaturation of girl groups make it harder for nugu girl groups to well stan a chance but it will be a lie if I were to say that is not possible, I mean we have seen groups that did in fact managed to well get out of nugudom and even had amazing success (some of them screw up though). I do agree it won't be the same as second gen but like I said it was due to the fact that well the average company didn't have like 3 girlgroups and planning to debut like 2 more in the incoming 6 months.

Quote from neonanton1

H1 key had a #1

I do not count #1s from cable programs.

Quote from Dreamer95

Lol you do realize that paper is just someone's opinion, right?

Absolutely it is. But I would tend to put more weight into the opinions of actual Koreans who write about music regularly, versus random Internet commentators on an English language K-pop forum.

Lol imagine arguing over meaningless generations in Kpop..

Anyways.. it's the circle of Big 4 companies having more money and connections --> groups naturally get popular --> fans check out and stan groups from same companies.

It seems like nowadays the only way small companies can survive is to bank on one member to get popular enough to get solo gigs and eventually focus on them and ditch the group. If you're lucky enough, he/she can pull the group up and the other members can get some sort of jobs here or there (ala Astro), but if not at least that one member can reel in the profits (ala Wooah Nana).

Of course you still want the group to succeed, but if it doesn't seem likely, this is the best way to cut your losses quick and make that one member your sole focus. Rather than investing all the money in 6+ members, focus on one to go solo, or throw them into acting which is where the big bucks are anyway, and typically this is the member that the public knows anyway.

I agree, OP.

There is so much competition. I often think there must be some profit in it even for the smaller ones, or they would not be adding groups at this rate, but now that there are multiple groups per generation per company, it seems to go even a level further

Talked about this before but multis or people who call themselves 'girl group fans' can't save all these many girl groups. What I often see happen is that a group gets some hype from Kpop fans and then a few years later they disband. There is much lamentation of 'how could we (and often 'they', to make it someone else's fault) let this awesome group flop?

The answer is simple. Most people don't have enough money to buy all albums of all girl groups and nobody has time to consistently stream songs of all girl groups to support them.

Note that I don't criticize the multis/girl group fans etc. I have a tendency to do the same. Oh I like this group and that group and that one, and before I know it, I have lost track of that first group and instead am listening to this shiny new group with their catchy song.

Another problem is that the smaller/newer agencies often don't have the experience to deal with it.

Both Loona and FIFTY/FIFTY had a hype that went way beyond the "we like this girl group just like we like 30 other girl groups" that Kpop fans often do. Yet they both imploded because of internal conflict the moment they started to hit that global success.

There are many nice groups out there and I wish they could all be successful. As long as Kpop is not mainstream world wide and gatekept against by Western media but also China, that is not going to happen.

Quote from ellenote

The market for girl groups is becoming extremely over-saturated, It's no wonder so many companies are struggling to stay afloat. I really don't know why the Big 3 needs all of these new groups. I really don't get it.

Money.

Very interesting take OP. I can't help but to agree as well. There definitely is a market saturation as well as alot of these groups from actual "small size" companies are not bringing anything "fresh" either, many of them are copying the "middle sized" and "top sized" companies' groups (sans PurpleKiss). There are some other things as well about the 4th gen, but I'll stay on topic and not steer off into their "entertainment personas" which I don't find "entertaining".

At some point I imagined that groups like Purple Kiss, Lightum and Billlie would be comfortably selling 100k per comeback and keeping a loyal fandom but it seems like all interest in these groups has gone away after the big companies started debuting their groups.

Quote from Person01

That is true, but It's not like kpop fans actually care about groups outside the big 4.

This post.

I believe there is always hope if the music stand out from the rest of the groups, but big 4 can success even without doing anything special.

Quote from Person01

That is true, but It's not like kpop fans care about groups outside the big 4.

True.

Personally, it's because I love well-produced and unique music/concepts, very good vocals and longevity and we all know that only a few labels' idols have that to offer SM idols being no.1

I grew up listening to Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, Westlife, Boys ll Men etc if an idol isn't giving me anything close to such perfection then I'm not wasting my time any time on them, sorry not sorry.

I wish all idols the best though