Do you think we also should count writing/composing skills to define an idol as an all-rounder/ace?

Quote from Minazuki

To be fair, I don't think there's objectivity in K-pop stans' mind when It comes to skills of idols they don't like or don't care about at all. Not only related to the skill of constructing a song (that being good or bad is subjetive).

That might be true but not entirely. No matter how someone hates idols like Kyuhyun, Baekhyun, Hyolyn, Taeyeon etc, no one will ever deny their vocal talent and if they do, they won't be taken seriously. Same for dancers like Kai, Taemin, Jhope, Chungha etc.

Meanwhile when it comes to song writing, it all depends on whether you like the song or not.

Quote from Minazuki

Oh, yes. Having a small participation in producting/writing and constructing on their own or with a few people's help a song is totally different. The first option is more common is K-pop tho

I guess I stan Lee Know the ace, because according to Chan he wrote Drive all by himself

Naur, I think it is unnecessary to add on. Same as rap and stage presence. For me, rap should just interchange with vocals depending on what they do more of, and stage presence is just an extension of dance.

To me, and all rounder is someone who is good at singing/rapping and dancing, and and ace is someone who is amongst the best at both.

Quote from Minazuki

According to Chan, the other Stray Kids members always do all and he never do anything

He is so humble

Chan is an ace too

Quote from alexS

because it requires creativity. Except if it's bad lol.

A good song, with good lyrics is almost like a poem.

Composing and producing nowadays is just taking samples from libraries and following the same structure over and over.

You can also write lyrics in a formulaic way, and be creative with composition and arrangement.

for 'normal' idol groups:

- singing

- dancing

- rapping

- overall performance / stage presence

for k-bands:

- singing

- stage presence

- playing instruments

- song writing / composing

No because that's nothing to do with performance, that's not the idols primary job like singing or dancing is. There are producers and writers whose job it is to do those things.

For all rounders, being good at vocal, dance, rap + good stage presence and live vocals can be enough too.

When it comes to aces...I would say that an ace can know only the things an all rounder that doesn't participate in songwriting does, except better—but I feel like a lot of idols who qualify as aces happen to also take part in song production?

But those are not even part of the idols' jobs. They can do it, but it is not in the job description of an idol

Singing, dancing and rapping is 'triple threat' status I think?

True all rounders write as well, and play an instrument.

Ugh, don't make this ace thing even harder for kpop fans. They already call an ace whatever idol they stan just because they stan that idol, if producing/composing will be included then they'll become even more delulu. I mean, ace is basically someone who can rap, dance and sing and is great at it, but

- they call a rapper anyone who just got this position from company and don't even write her/his own bars,

- they call a good dancer someone who is just able to dance pre-made choreo while there is a silence when it comes to isolation, technics, freestyle,

- they call someone a good singer while that someone can't proper sing live even while not dancing and his/her voice cracks all the time.

Honestly only the first point about rap will eliminate 98% of entire kpop population which pretends on ace title in kpop fans eyes, another 1,9% will be eliminated by last point about singer So what to tell about producing/composing which is already a rare thing in idol world.

Maybe as an extra title:

Like a Perfect Allrounder.

PAL instead of PAK

Yes as I believe a singer should write their own songs not have someone write it for them.