Posts by FoReveries

It sounds really chill, I like it

I'm even happier that Taeyeon has decided to do the music show promotions: I've watched some of the Amazing Saturday episodes, and I feel like she has really blossomed the past year, she looks genuinely happy and energetic.

Which is great, Taeyeon's a brooder and a shut-in by nature, she needs help from others to get out of her shell. In the past it was her SNSD girls, and now it seems to be the Amazing Saturday crew and her friends (in the idol industry?).

Frankly, there have been times that she got me worried. So I'm even happier that she seems to be doing well now

If Seulgi has shown anything, it's that she a chameleon queen when it's about adapting to various very diverse concepts and styles.

I thought that Sunmi's style suited Seulgi very well when they did Heroine

I can imagine her doing a solo like that.

But honestly, there are a lot of concepts and styles with which she could debut and execute them as a queen

Quote from Yumeku

Oh I remember their anti "projects" forum section where they brag about the things they did to hate SNSD. Like editing their fav mvs with fake translation subtitles bashing SNSD.

Yeah, they were really proud of it when some of their hate projects took off and had some degree of success , they even celebrated on their sites and forums

Like when Jessica's twitter account got blocked very soon after she created it due to mass reporting, or when extra bashing and uproar occurred due to their purposely flawed translations of some Korean clips. And so on.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

BWL likely won't be on gallup 2021, Dynamite has a decent shot.

How would you weigh Gallup rankings? 10 pts for 10th, 20 pts for 9th, etc.?

Hmm. While I agree that some scale should be used, I'm not so sure this is the right one.

This would basically mean that the #10 song on Gallup would be equivalent to the #90 position on the Gaon annual chart? That doesn't feel right, since we're talking about the Top 10 most loved, most favorite and most popular songs among the Korean general public.

That should count as more and have more weight than songs ending up somewhere around Top 25-100.

Also, Gallup covers more, like all layers and demographic slices of the Korean population in a balanced way? That's more than what Gaon covers, which is basically the actively music listening audience of a selective list of digital platforms.

Songs that have more impact will reach all layers of the population instead of just the people listening to Melon, Genie and such.

Which is why a larger importance should be contributed to the Top 10 songs mentioned in a Gallup survey, imo.

Also, I see why you went for the Gaon annual chart. They're handy, meaning less work (and time to put things together).

But keep in mind that this'll put songs that were released later on in a year at a disadvantage.

This may sound like nitpicking but it isn't: you put down a solid foundation, so it's more a matter of finetuning and building upon it further

Overall, like said before, good job!

Quote from ninichan

that first video is soooo good i kept smiling throughout thank u

Ngl, those expressions, those voices and accents and those dolphin cries ( ) in some of the scenes are priceless and very rewatchable

And I really like their overall interactions, they have great chemistry with eachother

I love the Chocolate Love MV so much, I still think it's 1 of the best CF MV songs of 2nd gen era

But let's not forget this iconic 2PMxSNSD collab MV, it's a fun, fully contained story in 4 min.

If you want to learn more about Aespa and see more of their personalities and interactions with eachother, I think these videos are a good start

While on youtube, I saw this one, 'Why Joy needs Wendy'

Their romantic flirting/cheesiness is goosebumps inducing

Wendy: 'I unbuttoned two buttons today, hehe.'

Joy: 'I think you can unbutton one more.'

And another one:

Yeri: 'If you could have another member's item, what would it be?'

Wendy: 'I would want Joy's bed.'

Joy: 'Yes, my bed is nice.'

Wendy: 'Joy's bed is really nice. It's comfortable, it hugs and wraps around me.'

Joy: 'cus it's just like me.'

:D

Solo's, sub-units, collaborations, they're all useful to give a larger focus or show a different side of the artists that you wouldn't see of them with the full group.

I think we've seen a lot of great examples of sub-units, people already mentioned NCT, EXO, TaeTiSeo, Orange Caramel, which are all solid examples.

I'd add Sistar19 and Seulgi&Irene to that:

Quote from haesoovoiceship

Sm stans are not the ones staning all groups from sm, it's the ones stanning sm stocks, sm new trainees, sm activities, sm not even debuted groups and and the ones accepting sm decisions concerning all groups against an individual group.

It can't be both though.

You mentioned that 'SM stans' are the worst enemy of SM groups.

But if like you said, SM stans are the ones stanning SN new trainees and not even debuted SM groups, then those can't be the same people that hate SM trainees and SM groups before they even debuted and spread toxic fake news rumors about them even before they debuted yet - those can't have been the 'SM stans that stan SM new trainees and not even debuted groups'.

In the same line: those who bashed EXO before their debut couldn't have been SM stans, since according to your definition, SM stans love new trainees and not even debuted groups.

Those ELF who hated on SNSD and helped arrange black oceans, those weren't SM stans either: those ELF hated SM, SNSD and other SM groups, and only really cared about Super Junior.

Me, I don't think the majority of the people bashing SM groups and idols even before debut and spreading fake news rumor about them, are fans of other SM groups (or 'SM stans' as some like to put it).

I think it is and always has been part of the great deflection and distraction game: to distract from the fact that the majority of those shaders and bashers are actually stans of other companies and non-SM groups who happen to be SM antis as well, and who hate SM groups or feel threatened by them.

Coincidentally also the same people who call all fans of SM groups 'SM stans' with no exception, to distract from the fact that they themselves are often far bigger, more hardcore company stans (of JYP, YG, BH/HYBE etc).

Back then I visited several of those anti-cafes and sites like those of STAND (=SNSD antis), to see what moved them.

I wasn't surprised to learn that a large number of them were Blackjacks, YG stans, and JYP stans and such.

Quote from sveznalica

True that, especially YG stan. They moved like cult omg

They basically worshipped everything from YG, "papa YG" included

Yep. YG stans and JYP stans were far more into loving and worshiping their bias' company and CEO than fans of SM groups back then, and then they still dared to call fans of SM groups the biggest company stans, right after they praised 'Papa YG' or talked about 'YG family' or 'JYP family'. The lack of self awareness of them was just...

Quote from haesoovoiceship

Sm stans are the worse enemy of sm groups

Quote from daniel-cruz

True

The more interesting question is: if fans of SM groups en masse hate the company, hate its CEO, hate/dislike other SM groups to the point of organizing and supporting black oceans... can you really still call them 'SM stans'?

If despite all that hate towards company, CEO and fellow groups, being fan of an SM group still makes them 'SM (company) stans', what does that make fans of JYP and YG groups who actually really liked their bias' company, its CEO and liked the sibling groups of their bias groups enough to talk about 'JYP family' and 'YG family'?

JYP/YG fanatics? JYP/YG acolytes, believers or worshipers?

The logic is just completely screwed about this

Quote from sveznalica

All SM fandoms hated exo, it was pathetic sight ngl

While fans of SM groups had less of that company family feeling than YG/JYP group stans had back then, there were far more YG stans, JYP stans and other-group stans that hated anything coming from SM with their whole hearts, and that especially included a new SM group that had the potential of surpassing their own biases.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

@keaji  selfmate  FoReveries done!

Impressive! Good job

I bookmarked the thread

Quote from itiswhatitisss

Wow this tea.

Heh. Yeah, well, I guess that this thread alone already proves beyond any shadow of a doubt how easily K-pop fans confuse a NGG title with the #1 girl group position

K-pop fans may shout 'Nation's Girl Group! National Girl Group!' as a raving, ranting madman in the desert all they like - but that has nothing to do with Korean media and news actually giving those titles and honorary nicknames to their K-pop groups and idols.

And that they aren't exactly shy with giving their popular groups and idols those honorary titles is shown with examples like this

And this is just the last few years, that SNSD have been called 'Nation's Girl Group', 'Eternal Nation's Girl Group' and 'Korea's Leading Girl Group', there have been many, many more times in the past 10+ years that SNSD were given all those titles.

And not just SNSD. Red Velvet for example were given honorary nicknames like 'Nation's Representative Girl Group', 'Best Idol Group Alive', 'Nation's Pride', 'Nation's Girl Group', Blackpink have been called 'Asia's Biggest Girl Group', 'Queens of K-pop', and on and on.

Korean media, tv and news just love giving their K-pop groups and idols all those titles all the time.

So if people want to talk about titles and honorary nicknames given to 4th gen groups, they should keep an eye out for Korean media and such coming up with them, because that's where all those other honorary titles came from.

A totally different discussion from this is 'who'll be the next #1 top girl group?'

Usually sales (digital + physical album) and popularity (Korean + international/worldwide) play a role in that discussion, and right now it's Blackpink that are on top:

Album sales: with 1M+ album sales for their latest, most recent album, they've far surpassed all other girl groups. Maybe this'll change in future with the ever increasing album sales, but right now Blackpink had the best sales per album

Digitals: again, obviously Blackpink. There have been some surprising contenders, like dark horses Brave Girls and Oh My Girl and super rookie Aespa who've left behind top groups like TWICE, (G)I-dle and Mamamoo who've fallen behind in digitals - but so far Blackpink have been consistently doing well digitally.

Popularity in South Korea: the latest Gallup survey was clear about, #1 most popular girl group is Blackpink, #2 TWICE, and #3 Red Velvet

International popularity/recognition: Blackpink have around 15M monthly listeners in Spotify, 4 MV's above 1 billion youtube views, their social media game is unequaled. There's no other girl group right now that comes even close.

It's kinda obvious: right now, the girl group to beat is Blackpink, they're the current #1 in all the areas that matter.

To summarize, when it comes to those honorary titles, Korean media and tv will do whatever and whenever they like, they'll give those titles and nicknames whenever they want to regardless how K-pop fans may feel about it.

But when it comes to the #1 girl group position, there are some clear cut thresholds and feats that need to be achieved, in both digital/album sales as popularity.

4th gen groups still have an impressive road to walk before they can fill those shoes. But who knows. If we've seen and learnt one thing this year, it's that anything is possible, sometimes even the unexpected

Quote from Lubby00

Not the Blinks coming in here saying their faves are the top GG. That title still belongs to Twice, it’s nice that they sold a million and all, but Twice has millionS along with daesangs, not to mention Koreans call them the top GG (even the SK President said they & BTS are their representative groups). BP are the 2ne1 to SNSD’s Twice (I mean that in a status format), and funny enough BlackJacks swore up & down their faves were the top too back in there day

And not y’all acting like the NGG title is suddenly insignificant when y’all fought tooth and nail for your faves to be considered that title before. Cope harder losers lol

Hey. You're back again. Haven't seen you around for many months?

Some additions to your post:

there's a clear difference between 2NE1's and SNSD's situation back then and BP's and TWICE's situation right now.

Blackjacks and other YG stans might've tried to shade SNSD's achievements and claim 2NE1 to be the top gg, trying to outshout other ifans with it.

But they only equaled and sometimes surpassed SNSD in 1 area, digitals.

Not when it's about album sales, popularity in SK, nor international popularity, in those SNSD had 2NE1 beat.

Not with BP and TWICE. Since last year BP's sales per album are better, they're #1 girl group in popularity in SK, their digitals are better, and their international popularity/recognition is better. Which is why BP's regarded as the #1 girl group right now.

Which has little to do with the title that Korean tv and news media gave TWICE. They give a lot of titles, just like TWICE have been called NGG, the past few years SNSD have been called this as well, next to other titles, and the same for Red Velvet who've been called 'Korea's representative girl group' and other titles.

Which is why it's better not to mix up the whole NGG title with the #1 girl group thing, because a lot of ifans treat those 2 things as if they're the same, which makes discussion unnecessary confusing. Because they're not the same.

1 is a title, given by Korean tv and news media among others, like they often do.

The other is simply a classification, based on a number of success criteria that are being compared.

Quote from auspop

calm down, most already know that aespa has 0 originality

and that "counterpart" is something far-fetched to justify something that actually already exists

Stop this hater/anti type of trashtalking of Aespa .

First of all, Aespa are just half a year old, so who knows how they'll develop over time.

Additionally, they are already doing things differently than most other K-pop AND J-pop groups. They have their own set up that isn't just the 100th cute girl group or 50th girl crush girl group.

Also, like someone else already mentioned, 'reinvent' and 'redefine' does not have the same meaning as 'invent'.

If people don't know the difference, which is what it looks like in this thread, google it.

If people have any complaints, address them towards Rolling Stones who made the statement in the first place, instead of bashing Aespa.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

I stand by what I said. It's not the Japanese companies who went towards the international audiences, it's the way around. For years, foreign publishers had to basically beg the Japanese right owners to sell them publishing rights because they just didn't see the point. Of course with time it changed, but it did really slowly. For the most part, the Japanese entertaintment industry is still very self centered.

Well, the same can be said for K-pop. It didn't start out just to get international audiences, with the ease of internet opening up other countries' cultures and their entertainment, those international audiences flocked towards K-pop all by themselves.

Only after that, K-pop just like Japanese companies started to see the opportunities and made use of the international attention for what they had to offer.

In any case, this discussion can go on and on and on, and I've basically said everything I wanted to say about the topic, especially since this is a thread about Aespa and how they're gaining international recognition. So if you see it differently than what I said above, I say we'll simply have to agree to disagree on that

Quote from killingtime1934

For saying sone are bitter? They are, they dahde twice to death around 2016 and are using a new sm gg to do it to new groups bc RV didn't worked

I was there to see it, nothing I said it's false

The only one that seems bitter is you. Not sure why you're constantly trying to lure other posters into fanwars, but I'd ask you to stop doing so.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

I kinda disagree. Unlike k-pop, the Japanese entertainment industry never really tried to cater to international audiences. They always did things their way. For some things, like manga, or video games (and even in that department they lost a lot of their prestige), they succeeded at converting international audiences while staying true to their roots. But it just didn't work for J-Pop as it was just too Japanese I guess. Independantly of the quality (that I agree is lesser) idol J-Pop music and the way it works are just too weird. And when they have a success, like Babymetal, it's more by accident than anything.

Scrap that 'never tried': of course they tried, they aren't idiots, or do you think they are? Of course they want to make more money and grow and have their creative products be accepted and taken in by people outside of Japan, and certainly by the western markets and audiences.

There are piles of interviews where game makers, anime movie makers etc talk about what they did to and input into their products that would make it interesting to a worldwide audience.

It's just that J-pop as a whole failed to do so. At least when it comes to the scale that Japanese games, anime and K-pop are able to do so.

Quote from auspop

the only reason jpop is not popular is because it was never promoted outside of Japan, the best example is Johnny's, they are the most important agency in the history of Asia, and just in 2021 they created a twitter account ...

That "it is not of quality" is a clearly subjective thing, kpop currently apart from imitating things that Japan does, it also imitates the West. Jpop does not imitate the West, that is why it is more "curious", but it is also much more unique.

We won't know until they up their game, but up till now j-pop as a whole is underachieving.

Also, it doesn't really help that a majority of the j-pop scene is in the hands of 1 man/company: that comes very close to a monopoly, and isn't exactly a sound environment for healthy, thriving competition. It's strong competition that breeds innovation and higher, improved quality standards.

Anyway, this thread is about how well Aespa are doing internationally and how they're getting lots of acclaim, like from Rolling Stone. So I don't want to derail too much with discussions that have little to do with that topic.