Posts by vzal
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I know lmao
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The controversy ruined her chances at building any sort of career, it's hard to count that out.
No it didn't. What ruined her chances was that she really isn't good at anything except dancing.
She was promoting just fine with RV before her solo, you are overstating her controversy's impact. No one cares about it now, it's only brought up to mock her. if she went into acting like Joy and Yeri and was actually good at it, she would easily be one of the top 3rd gen idols like she was pre-controversey. At least among ifans. Knetz would also come around sooner than later.
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Not to discredit Wendy but wouldn't she have more listeners due to being on more OSTs and having higher profile features?
back to the op, this is a tough question to answer. I think what matters more than talent and visual is marketing. There's plenty if idols that would be considered top level visuals or top level vocalist or dancer. THe issue for those idols not getting attention is due to being in a smaller company or company failing to market them
If you take group like Nmixx, they're above their peers when it comes to talent and they have top level visuals. However, that still didn't give them the push to be a top group because marketing and early song selection failed them.
Lastly, I think visuals will get people's attention , but talent will help an idol have a longer career. At the end of the day, marketing and creatives matter more than both talent and visuals.
Those are still her songs? And there is only one feature, HOTW afaik.
I am only talking about soloists. Groups like Nmixx and why they didn't hit big is an entirely different story.
Marketing does NOT matter more than talent. But it certainly helps. My entire point is that you need something sustainable(talent) to stay relevant in the long run and visuals aren't it.
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I believe visuals/personality are most important as long as they are in a group/Idols, when they start to move away to solos and doing mature songs and public the songs starts to get more important.
Songs will always be important but there are cases where some ppl just refuse to listen to someone due to their image. Like I am more inclined to check out Wendy's or Seulgi's music than Irene's cuz I know they can sing and I like their voices. Branding is important. Being known for your talent will always trump being known for your visuals, unless you quickly go into acting and establish yourself as a force there (and then again this requires talent). Kdrama fans also tend to be harsher than Kpop fans.
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No I don't, that's not what I tried to say.
With Wendy Irene example I don't think either of them have any big star-power. And since talent takes you longer than visuals alone, Wendy's doing better in the long run. If Irene had more star-power + likability in addition to her visuals, I think she could've done better than Wendy (not necessarily music-wise, but more popular as an idol overall, maybe modelling, MCing or whatever).
What is star power here? Luck? She shot herself in the foot in the likability department.
The thing is if she had the talent to go into acting or she could sing, not being likeable wasn't an issue.
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I think visuals will get you a lot of attention at first but that is risky and unstable because soon enough, another top-tier visual will come and steal the spotlight. Having talent, while maybe you won't reach top of the top (at least not quickly), you will still have longevity and a stable fanbase.
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This. Exactly.
She is none of these things except maybe insanely charismatic. She is easily the least likeable member of BP and is not a classic beauty.
What makes her popular is that she knows her strengths. She is not the most talented but has enough talent to branch out from her group and do well on her own. To add to this, she has a great team behind her. Overall, I don't think she is the best example. There are several other reasons as to why she is popular.
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I think charisma is more important. If the person is both charismatic and talented or charismatic and visually appealing, then It's the best combo.
The former is the superior combo and the latter doesn't even come close imo. No matter how beautiful you are it won't make pol tune into a 16 hour long drama or listen to your music cuz music requires much more than a beautiful face
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but that's why a lot of visuals transfer to become something other than singers post their idol career
when you say surpassed - well by some not all...which is why I said the visual member will rarely be the least popular but I never said they will always be the most popular.
acting/hosting is but two of the criteria however there is much more to "talents"...I understand this is kpop where most people when discussing talents referring to the performance aspect of things - the singing/dancing/rapping however there is so much more to the non performance aspects which do include acting/hosting/writing/producing/modelling/etc etc
however I am talking even about the talents that aren't "talents" per se and what I mean by that is things like - marketability, likeability, personality, charm, charisma, wit etc etc. Those things in kpop matter a lot more than the performance aspects of talent since those things will continue to make an idol money in the long run far after their looks fade
Charisma and charm are not going to make ppl listen to your music tho.. and there will always be someone more charming in each gen. It's not something exclusive to one person like music or even better voice.
Wittiness and personality are best displayed in variety and Sana is the best example of that. She is the host of a successful variety show thanks to that so of course idols can always bank on their personality but not everyone is interesting enough to overcome 1 hour long episodes.
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two different questions
1. do visuals matter more than talent - yes BUT only if the talent in question is singing and dancing and rapping...since I've said it many times before there is much more talent than merely those three...
the visual might not be the most popular member in the group but rarely will they be the least popular
2. do visuals matter in the long run - it matters less as time goes on since unless one maintain one's visuals forever they will fade but in terms of an idol's career (say at least the first seven years + say 2 3-year contract extensions) visuals matter a lot
Oops yeah I was having lunch when writing this post so my entire focus wasn't here lol, I edited the poll title.
Sure visuals are never the least popular member but they also tend to become irrelevant quicker, they peak higher than everyone and then start to decline slowly cuz they have nothing else to offer other than their faces. Examples are Irene, Tzuyu, and Jisoo. Note that none of these idols are nugu but its a fact that all of them have been surpassed by their bandmates.
I think doing some other thing like hosting/acting is the best way to retain their popularity but again you need to be talented to do well in those fields and become more than just a B/C tier actress. So yes I do think talent matters more than visuals esp if you want to stay relevant for a long time.
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Oh oh. JYP might now want to pull a Wonder Girls on them lol
Wdym
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So I was just checking Red velvet solos on Spotify and I was really surprised to see Wendy being the only member with 1m+ listeners. She was always considered the least popular member in RV but now she is the most listened to and is also embarking on a solo tour.
Who would have thought of this in 2018? Did anyone really expect Wendy to be more successful individually than Irene and Seulgi who were the indisputable top 2 when RV was active? Especially Irene?
In the long run it really seems like visuals don't matter cuz Irene is irrelevant now and Wendy is still doing well and will continue to do so cuz she's talented and will always be in demand for her vocals.
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