Do you still think visuals matter more than talent?
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I believe visuals/personality are most important as long as they are in a group/Idols, when they start to move away to solos and doing mature songs and public the songs starts to get more important.
Songs will always be important but there are cases where some ppl just refuse to listen to someone due to their image. Like I am more inclined to check out Wendy's or Seulgi's music than Irene's cuz I know they can sing and I like their voices. Branding is important. Being known for your talent will always trump being known for your visuals, unless you quickly go into acting and establish yourself as a force there (and then again this requires talent). Kdrama fans also tend to be harsher than Kpop fans.
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So I was just checking Red velvet solos on Spotify and I was really surprised to see Wendy being the only member with 1m+ listeners. She was always considered the least popular member in RV but now she is the most listened to and is also embarking on a solo tour.
Who would have thought of this in 2018? Did anyone really expect Wendy to be more successful individually than Irene and Seulgi who were the indisputable top 2 when RV was active? Especially Irene?
In the long run it really seems like visuals don't matter cuz Irene is irrelevant now and Wendy is still doing well and will continue to do so cuz she's talented and will always be in demand for her vocals.
Wendy was never the least popular member of RV. I also REALLY don't like your insinuation that she's the only talented member of the group, because she's definitely not, nor is Irene "irrelevant." She had the highest-selling solo album of any member. Spotify numbers aren't the end-all, be-all of success benchmarks.
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Not to discredit Wendy but wouldn't she have more listeners due to being on more OSTs and having higher profile features?
back to the op, this is a tough question to answer. I think what matters more than talent and visual is marketing. There's plenty if idols that would be considered top level visuals or top level vocalist or dancer. THe issue for those idols not getting attention is due to being in a smaller company or company failing to market them
If you take group like Nmixx, they're above their peers when it comes to talent and they have top level visuals. However, that still didn't give them the push to be a top group because marketing and early song selection failed them.
Lastly, I think visuals will get people's attention , but talent will help an idol have a longer career. At the end of the day, marketing and creatives matter more than both talent and visuals.
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That's what I was thinking + her collab with John Legend. Her numbers on Spotify seems on par with Seulgi if we minus that. I think Seulgi has the best numbers on spotify if we minus collabs
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Not to discredit Wendy but wouldn't she have more listeners due to being on more OSTs and having higher profile features?
back to the op, this is a tough question to answer. I think what matters more than talent and visual is marketing. There's plenty if idols that would be considered top level visuals or top level vocalist or dancer. THe issue for those idols not getting attention is due to being in a smaller company or company failing to market them
If you take group like Nmixx, they're above their peers when it comes to talent and they have top level visuals. However, that still didn't give them the push to be a top group because marketing and early song selection failed them.
Lastly, I think visuals will get people's attention , but talent will help an idol have a longer career. At the end of the day, marketing and creatives matter more than both talent and visuals.
Those are still her songs? And there is only one feature, HOTW afaik.
I am only talking about soloists. Groups like Nmixx and why they didn't hit big is an entirely different story.
Marketing does NOT matter more than talent. But it certainly helps. My entire point is that you need something sustainable(talent) to stay relevant in the long run and visuals aren't it.
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Those are still her songs? And there is only one feature, HOTW afaik.
I am only talking about soloists. Groups like Nmixx and why they didn't hit big is an entirely different story.
Marketing does NOT matter more than talent. But it certainly helps. My entire point is that you need something sustainable(talent) to stay relevant in the long run and visuals aren't it.
Agreed that they're still her songs but it's why numbers are a bit skewed. I believe Seulgi is on par with Wendy when it comes to being a soloist. She just doesn't have as many songs as her.I think for Irene it's a bit unfair to compare because she's only now getting solo material. It also happened when her popularity was on a decline. I think if she had her solo earlier than we would be having a different conversation imo.
I think marketing is key when it comes to kpop groups but if we're talking about soloist, then I agree.
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The controversy ruined her chances at building any sort of career, it's hard to count that out.
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The controversy ruined her chances at building any sort of career, it's hard to count that out.
No it didn't. What ruined her chances was that she really isn't good at anything except dancing.
She was promoting just fine with RV before her solo, you are overstating her controversy's impact. No one cares about it now, it's only brought up to mock her. if she went into acting like Joy and Yeri and was actually good at it, she would easily be one of the top 3rd gen idols like she was pre-controversey. At least among ifans. Knetz would also come around sooner than later.
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I think visuals definitely play a role, but more in areas like CFs or modeling where appearance is the main selling point. Even then, there’s still a level of talent needed, for example, knowing how to pose properly, convey emotions through expressions, or engage the viewer.
For music and performance careers, though, talent has the longer-lasting impact. Visuals might catch initial attention, but skills like singing, rapping, dancing, or even stage presence are what sustain someone’s career and make people keep coming back.
So to me, visuals aren’t more important than talent, they complement each other, but talent is what carries you in the long run.
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Charisma and charm are not going to make ppl listen to your music tho.. and there will always be someone more charming in each gen. It's not something exclusive to one person like music or even better voice.
Wittiness and personality are best displayed in variety and Sana is the best example of that. She is the host of a successful variety show thanks to that so of course idols can always bank on their personality but not everyone is interesting enough to overcome 1 hour long episodes.
we are referring to kpop right? you've been here a while my friend so you know in kpop it isn't the music or MVs that sell...it's the idols themselves - they are the product. Which is why parasocial relationships are a thing. The more likeable the more charismatic the prettier you are generally means more fans and brands deals and $$$...
you are right just because one is charming and charismatic doesn't mean there won't be someone else in a different group more charming - just as having great performance talents doesn't mean someone else can't have better performing talents...
you are right and Jihyo is a better singer than sana and again with all due respect to both of them (since you know I'm a twice fan) sana is "by south korean beauty standards" prettier than Jihyo and sana is more popular than jihyo and has more brand deals than the main singer who is arguably more talented performance wise...
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I think visuals definitely play a role, but more in areas like CFs or modeling where appearance is the main selling point. Even then, there’s still a level of talent needed, for example, knowing how to pose properly, convey emotions through expressions, or engage the viewer.
For music and performance careers, though, talent has the longer-lasting impact. Visuals might catch initial attention, but skills like singing, rapping, dancing, or even stage presence are what sustain someone’s career and make people keep coming back.
So to me, visuals aren’t more important than talent, they complement each other, but talent is what carries you in the long run.
which is why I separated out the talents in terms of the performance aspect of things compared to the non-performance aspects of talent...
like how does one compare someone like taeyeon vs yoona in SNSD where yoona's talent seems to be in acting and emcing and "visuals" compared to taeyeon who's talent is in singing vs someone like hyoyeon who's talent is in the dancing
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her music career was going to flop with or without the controversy.
except it didn't flop?
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except it didn't flop?
The entire discussion is disingenuous, but they're obviously not going to acknowledge any holes being punched into their narrative that she's an untalented flop just because she's a visual. You'll just be ignored like I was.
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