Posts by salem9

Quote from selfmate

good for the person who made the video amd the list...what does it change though?

is someone suddenly going to go:

ah shit BP have such shit vocalists i'm stanning RV instead?

you could literally put all those singers in F- tier or hyper sub shit tier and it would not make one ounce of difference to people...

people like what they like...

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Nobody is claiming you should follow the most competent vocalist here. There are groups more focused on vocals and others in rapping or performance or even visuals. I personally don't care about vocals if the music is good (Dreamcatcher or Loona for example)

This just serves as an instance to clarify some misconceptions that I see a lot when talking about vocals from new gen groups (which are average at best) and open a serious discussion about it

Also, people do visual rankings all the time but it's suddendly bad to do one based on vocal technique? (which is what they supposedly trained for so many years). I don't get it

Quote from i9son

Fringe/undeveloped vocalists: Jisoo

Substandard to standard vocalists: Rose

Really ?

Blackpink has never been known for having any strong vocalists

Quote from motorp77

Should be noted that when you talk about this topic, it is still very subjective and difference between tiers shouldn't be considered as hard. Also when trying that many artists, sample size are often very small so the placements are very vague.

There's little room for subjectivity when we talk about vocal technique

As for the tier names (which can be harsh) they really show the reality of kpop. Great singers are actually suuuper rare . Keep in mind that there are people like Sohyang, Joohyun (FinkL) or even Ailee who are miles away in terms of vocal deliverance

No, their "national hits" are both from 2016 but it doesn't mean they can't have another big hit such as Yes or Yes or DTNA

I found a very insightful video ranking the new gen GG members in terms of vocal technique. I think it's pretty accurate and shows plenty examples of their strenghts and weaknesses:

The list is in order btw.

Competent vocalists:

Wendy - Red Velvet

Capable vocalists:

Wheein - Mamamoo

Solar - Mamamoo

Seunghee - Oh My Girl

Hwasa - Mamamoo

Standard to capable vocalists:

Yechan - Pink Fantasy

Sejeong - Gugudan/IOI

Dawon - WJSN

Standard vocalists:

Yuju - Gfriend

Kei - Lovelyz

Yeonjung - WJSN/IOI

Jihyo - Twice

Somin - KARD

Seulgi - Red Velvet

Jeongyeon - Twice

Yuri - Izone

Substandard to standard vocalists:

Chaewon - April

Rose - Blackpink

Nayeon - Twice

Haseul - Loona

Substandard vocalists:

Seunghee - CLC

Miyeon - (G)-idle

Joy - Red Velvet

Fringe/undeveloped vocalists:

Siyeon - Dreamcatcher

Jisoo - Blackpink

Eunha - Gfriend

Non vocalists/Undeveloped vocalists (mostly rappers):

Yeri, Irene, Lisa, Yeji, Yeeun, Selkie

It's kind of impressive how Wendy is on her own level and also shocking how the level of 3rd gen vocalists is way weaker than 2nd gen (Taeyeon, Luna, Eunji, Hyorin, etc etc)

Quote from earlsweartshirt

I have been rapping for over 30 years

So you’re 40+ years old?

Quote from omnimorphism

Why would someone use a service that is more expensive and doesn't have all artists? There's not even a freemium subscription in Korean.

The catalog that Spotify provides is waaay bigger than Melon’s. Also there are tons of global playlists showing what’s trending at the moment, podcasts, etc.

Quote from Artemosia

It doesn't help that the song sucks

For real though. IU’s music has been so bad lately. I guess she’s aiming for the international audience now

Quote from theVillain

Hard to tell. I could als say you can make an equally compelling case for 2017 or 2019 for Twice.

2017 they first truly blew up in Japan and had 3 number 1's in Korea and, at the time, their biggest international hit Likey.

Similarly 2019 while they didn't do as well in Korea they had their biggest selling/highest earning year in Japan. Releases Fancy and Feel Special(up until ICSM) their number 1 and 2 biggest international songs. Played the first ever dome tour for a girl group and posted, at the time, by far their best ever streaming numbers. Had a world tour.

So I think you could say either 2017, 2018 or 2019...I think at a stretch you might even be able to make a case for 2016 being their peak year.

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True. It depends on how you see it

But still, 2017-2018 was the year that settled their popularity in Japan and considering how bad Feel Special did domestically I don’t think it would be fair to call it their peak year

Quote from crystal105

For Mamamoo I might still pick 2019. Their general popularity went up, building on the hype they got from the 2018 4S4C project. They had a huge jump in physicals, views and recognition. Their group and solo songs did really well on the charts too - Gogobebe, HIP, Twit and Good Bye.

In terms of longevity Gogobebe didn’t do well. I personally think it was a big underperformance. Also their Queendom song fell really fast

The hype for them was clearly missing during that year (compared to their golden years ofc) and Hip only with time became strong as it’s initial numbers weren’t that impressive

I’m not counting solos here btw. Only full group releases and activities

Quote from crissies

Wew, so few BTS nominations, idk why I'm surprised since I already knew that r/kpop dislikes them.

what does BTS have to do with this thread? lol

Quote from hueningkaiskai

also redvelvet hasnt had a comeback yet its too early to say whether they peaked or not

They won't have more than one comeback per year from now on. There's little to no chances for them to grow bigger than they are now. Also, Monster was kind of a semi comeback and it didn't do well except for the album sales increase (which every group out there experienced during 2020)

*DISCLAIMER*

What does peak mean?

- Huge general public anticipation for their upcoming releases, big UL numbers or significant international relevance

- As for physicals, big jump in numbers are what truly matters here

- Keep in mind that to be considered a peak, it has to be somehow maintained over a significant period of time. As an example, both Psycho and Hip era were pretty big, but the following (or previous) releases didn't meet the good expectations and they were mostly "sleeper" hits with great longevity

TWICE

peak: 2018

Three pretty big digital hits in a row (WIL, DTNA and YoY), surpassed 300k in Japan for the very first time (first time for a 3rd gen GG too) and over 1 million album sales on Gaon

BLACKPINK

peak: 2020 (so far)

Two smashing hits with insane longevity, first GG to ever hit 1 million sales for a physical release and increasing international visibility/streaming power

RED VELVET

peak: 2017-first half of 2018

Red Flavor became an anthem and the anticipation for Bad Boy (being also one of their biggest success in western platforms) and Power Up was pretty big

MAMAMOO

peak: 2016-first half of 2017

2016 was a year of PAKs, chart topping B-sides and Decalcomanie, one of their biggest hits so far. By this period they were considered digital monsters domestically and their concerts were sold out in minutes (something rare for non big 3 groups)

GFRIEND

peak: 2016

Rough was their ticket to glory and Navillera was more than enough to maintain them as a relatively big contender for Twice. Their physical sales around this period were also very solid

The fact that it was a Youtube concert already limits the audience for Blackpink so it doesn't make sense to compare them with others

Not newbies putting Itzy/Idle above RV/MMM with those poor digitals and ad views

Red Velvet hands down (if they actually have one)

Quote from jenniekimqueen

Hip and Psycho both have failed to hit that 2.5m downloads mark. And both weren’t chart toppers either

Downloads have decreased a lot recently. It takes way more time to hit that mark nowadays

Still, both already hit 100M streamings and surpassed 50 weeks on melon top 100

If Playing with fire is a "national hit" then so are Hip and Psycho in 2019

Ok, so people is really canceling her for this!? lmao

What a world

Anyways, it’s not like i-fans are buying their albums so she couldn’t care less

Those who already “proved” some sort of strong bond between each one of them:

Big Bang, Got7, Mamamoo, 2ne1, and that’s about it

Other than that I’m pretty sure the big majority aren’t as close and have a coworker relationship only. Of course there will be strong friendships between two or three members. But it’s nearly impossible for a large group of individuals to become close out of nowhere just because they see each other pretty much 24/7