why do so many people think bts are manipulating the billboard charts?

    i had this really weird conversation with someone where they were adamant that bts was manipulating the charts. they kept going about how fans buying loads of music = manipulation. (it's funny how when people say that bts manipulate the charts, they never have any other point to talk about except that their fans buy a lot of music.)


    i've seen this many times on twitter too. this has never been an issue like this with other artists as far as i've seen, so why is there such an uproar for bts? it seems like what bts has been doing is perfectly fair to me.


    thoughts?

    Well BTS ARMY are manipulating the charts, but what people are failing to realize, is that most companies/artists make attempts at manipulating it.


    Bieber was begging fans to mass stream, the bundles that always went around, etc etc


    Like tomorrow Drake is gonna occupy 9/10 slots of the BB100, and thats not from manipulation, but just from Drake being Drake

    Chart manipulation has and is going on by the western labels for decades. Payola, playlisting, stream farms, all that, done by the labels. It upsets many western stans that BTS fans have come to understand charting in the US, and are able to do something that they can't do.

    Quote from penguinsgg

    Well BTS ARMY are manipulating the charts, but what people are failing to realize, is that most companies/artists make attempts at manipulating it.


    Bieber was begging fans to mass stream, the bundles that always went around, etc etc

    So in your eyes, army is definitively manipulating while others are only attempting? :rolleyes: manipulation implies going against the rules. buying music isn't manipulation no matter how you try to spin it. people can spend their money however they want. And OP, the reason ppl are loud about it is because they have never encountered a fanbase as large as army. Typical fan support has always been adjunctive to label support to make a western artist success. But when you have to deal with minimal label support in comparison to other celebs, that loyal fanbase comes in clutch (and if the song is good, the wishy-washy GP helps as well).

    Quote from VioletPunisherr

    they're in disbelief that a group they don't like could be that successful on their own so they jump to the first excuse

    Yes, they may shame us Armys all they want but we will just turn it against them. :pepegrin:


    BOTS R US,Chart Manipulators tm: Breaking Records Since 2013 RISE!

    they can't accept that bts is succeeding without us label, without bundling, without payola, without spotify partnerships, without car washing or freebies and without playlisting.

    Edited once, last by chaesooo ().

    Quote from magicwand18

    So in your eyes, army is definitively manipulating while others are only attempting? :rolleyes: manipulation implies going against the rules. buying music isn't manipulation no matter how you try to spin it. people can spend their money however they want. And OP, the reason ppl are loud about it is because they have never encountered a fanbase as large as army. Typical fan support has always been adjunctive to label support to make a western artist success. But when you have to deal with minimal label support in comparison to other celebs, that loyal fanbase comes in clutch (and if the song is good, the wishy-washy GP helps as well).

    I would say Butter sales being directed by several ARMY donation accounts is manipulation, yes. And no manipulation doesnt mean going against the rules.

    Quote from magicwand18

    Typical fan support has always been adjunctive to label support to make a western artist success. But when you have to deal with minimal label support in comparison to other celebs, that loyal fanbase comes in clutch (and if the song is good, the wishy-washy GP helps as well).

    that's very true. i didn't think about that. people don't really see artists like bts with little label support succeed. so when people see bts charting #1, they think they're achieving their success through unethical means :-(

    Quote from penguinsgg

    I would say Butter sales being directed by several ARMY donation accounts is manipulation, yes. And no manipulation doesnt mean going against the rules.

    Me waiting for BB to introduce new buy 1 one song and only buy 1 song policy so Karmy can come back.


    Anyway, BB only counts 4 sales per person. Meaning you can only buy 4 and that's it.


    But still, if you divide BTS's sales by 4 they are still greater than the other song's sales on the hot 100 without the whole dividing thing(I mean if I divided their song sales too then they wouldn't stand a god damn chance).

    Quote from ArmyBlink0

    Me waiting for BB to introduce new buy 1 one song and only buy 1 song policy so Karmy can come back.


    Anyway, BB only counts 4 sales per person. Meaning you can only buy 4 and that's it.


    But still, if you divide BTS's sales by 4 they are still greater than the other song's sales on the hot 100 without the whole dividing thing(I mean if I divided their song sales too then they wouldn't stand a god damn chance).

    *im not talking shit just explaining*


    Butter has 5(?) remixes/instrumental, and they all count towards the same song, so along with PTD


    ARMY Donation accounts were giving out enough for 40 purchases, and then the buyers would do a 24/16 split between the 2 songs.


    So in theory they only need like 3500-4000 buyers to give around 100K sales per week

    Quote from tinypeach

    that's very true. i didn't think about that. people don't really see artists like bts with little label support succeed. so when people see bts charting #1, they think they're achieving their success through unethical means :-(

    People really forgetting how manufactured success for artists in the west is these days. Without playlisting, massive radioplay and company/label support you aren't getting anywhere.


    I miss the old days where we were listening to songs on our own will. Not because they are 24/7 on the radio or that we can't press the skip button on our playlists in spotify.


    But seriously spotify on phones is horrible. Computer version is much better.

    PTD doesn't have any remixes(nor radioplay).......and supporting PTD doesn't mean Butter gets a benefit. And I believe it is 4 remixes. And we can use the same division method for this too.

    And it's all legal, per Billboards rules.


    Namjoon already said it, they don't like it? Change the rules; it's their damn chart after all.


    But remember; changing everything officially just to keep BTS out will inevitably affect everyone else too. But they don't want to do that do they?

    Quote from susol111

    And it's all legal, per Billboards rules.


    Namjoon already said it, they don't like it? Change the rules; it's their damn chart after all.


    But remember; changing everything officially just to keep BTS out will inevitably affect everyone else too. But they don't want to do that do they?

    Best answer OP!

    I mean, obviously there were several versions and there is mass streaming/ bulk buying, but that's literally how fandoms work.


    It makes me laugh when people call BTS fans out for that when everyone is doing it. Doesn't negate how insanely huge BTS are. Their popularity is not manipulation, there are just millions of us who like their music.

    1 person downloading the same song like 10 times isn't exactly manipulation since they are still spending the money legitimately, but it is strictly for charting purposes and not because that fan actually needs or wants 10 downloads. BTS' charting is mostly due to sky high downloads. It makes them seem more popular and their songs more successful than they *already* are. It's not manipulation, since they are legitimate sales, but manipulation-adjacent I'd say considering the point is to increase their charting. I believe Hybe encourages it by releasing so many remixes, instrumentals, and such.

    Good for the fans being able to do that.

    Quote from susol111

    And it's all legal, per Billboards rules.


    Namjoon already said it, they don't like it? Change the rules; it's their damn chart after all.


    But remember; changing everything officially just to keep BTS out will inevitably affect everyone else too. But they don't want to do that do they?

    I know its all legal.


    My entire point is they focus on ARMY manipulation, but turn a blind eye to western artists/companies pulling their own version of it. They're all playing within the rules, they just like to make it seem western artists dont do anything and its all "pure and organic"

    Wow. Imagine having a fandom that dedicated. Along with the streaming, the online concert of nearly a million PAID viewers, the merchandise, the album sales (BE Delux an expensively priced album), the sold out MOTS stadium concert that got canceled due to Covid. I bet a lot of artists would love an ARMY of their own

    Quote from penguinsgg

    I know its all legal.


    My entire point is they focus on ARMY manipulation, but turn a blind eye to western artists/companies pulling their own version of it. They're all playing within the rules, they just like to make it seem western artists dont do anything and its all "pure and organic"

    Oh of course they do.


    Cheap bundling and sorry-ass playlisting methods; money under the table from companies; radio is especially heinous.


    But legitimate buying is what everyone is upset about? Even if they're 4 copies per, it's still a legitimate purchase.


    These people are MAD at pure sales. It's laughable

    reminder to some people here that BTS sold out MULTIPLE STADIUMS in the US before their first #1 hit in the US. So don't even try to come here and claim anything about BTSs popularity in the US. BTS aren't the only fckin people who release remixes and so on. Not their fault they have a big enough fandom to buy them.


    also how come no one calls willow or cardigans #1's in the US manipualtion.... how do you guys think Taylor got #1 with willow.... thats right releasing multiple remixes and pure sales carrying her (fun fact: Butter had more debut US streams than willow).

    They try to tag them with manipulation because how else can you try and tarnish them?


    Army aren't doing anything new, nothing done under cover, nothing illegal (vpns) etc. - the only problem is now the fandom has got so huge they are becoming too successful. Officially a threat so gotta take them out.


    I'm sick of hearing about remixes this is how I know ppl talk out their ass. The amount of remixes alone some popular western artists release make BTS pale in comparison...and those artist actually have industry support, playlisting, radio and everything else to go along with it.


    So sue army for doing the minimum and buying the song to help support in a market that is skewed towards corporate control and locals.


    Dumb as hell.

    Quote from ArmyBlink0

    As someone wise once said. The bb hot 100 chart represent the songs with the most money spent on. Either from fans or the companies/labels.


    As far as I can see, Hybe isn't putting any effort. They are like: Here's a song! Do whatever you want with it.

    Best answer

    Is he.....you know?

    투모로우바이투게더 ᛫ 방탄
    레드벨벳 ᛫ 엑소 ᛫ 샤이니 ᛫ 에이티즈

    Dynamite had 9 remixes not counting instrumental. Butter has 3 + a feature. Still less than half.


    Even if you counted instrumentals, Butter had at least half the number of purchasable files on the store. 10 for Dynamite vs. 5 for Butter. Permission to Dance had 1 remix.

    Is he.....you know?

    투모로우바이투게더 ᛫ 방탄
    레드벨벳 ᛫ 엑소 ᛫ 샤이니 ᛫ 에이티즈

    Edited 2 times, last by MassiveKpopFan ().

    I said this in another thread...


    if i sell a product and I convince one person buys it that's one sale

    if I can convince one million people to buy one of my product that's a million sales

    if i can convince one million people to buy 10 of my product isn't that impressive and should be commended?

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