Why do so many action movies these days give Heroines weak, pathetic villains ?

In so many action movies these days they give Heroines very weak, dumb, pathetic and absolutely not threatening villains… especially if that villain is a male.

Also the plot is often the same… a Marry Sue who is ridiculously superior towards everyone trying to destroy the patriarchy.

Also there is barely any character development ( cause there is nothing to develop, they are already perfect), they think high of themself ( without ever being challenged), they almost get everything handled to them because they are either “the chosen one” or they just want a women to have that magic moment without earning it.

I mean even if they want to make a movie about a women trying to destroy the patriarchy… let the plot make sense, let us feel the oppression and threat… it makes no sense having a female lead who is untouchable, someone who always get what they want without facing any real obstacles, complaining about oppression when there is absolutely no threat for them.

And they than wanna mask this as female empowerment when they make the villain (or men, cause the villains in these movies are almost always men, cause you can’t have a women playing an evil threatening villain) artificially weak and the heroine superficially stronger… there is no enjoyment when they defeat their enemy.

The only genres where I see pleasant and reliable good written female characters are in fantasy, thrillers, horror or romance. I’m about to give up on action… it was way better 2-3 years ago

Where are my Arya’s, Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connors

They better don’t touch my Dora Milaje’s… I rather see them only in Black Panther than a stand alone movie where they will focus more on gender politics than a good story telling.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

As a fan of Hong Kong cinema, I already have a huge gallery of action female icons to look at. So Hollywood's poor attempts at portraying badass female characters (think Charlie's Angels reboot) won't cut it. Let's wait patiently for Furiosa in 2023 (hopefully).

Mad Max was awesome and showed how good a badass female lead can look like… looking forward to Furiosa too!

Yes currently Asian content is doing it for me, or European cinema. Can’t stand what Hollywood is giving us lately.

CA reboot was so terrible and I rooted for it cause I liked the original movies.

You know everything is wrong when the guys in the movie try to be “sexist” and you take it more as a joke than them being serious….

Quote from catzi

Horror movies always gave heroines threatening villains. A recent one is The VVitch but I'm sure I can think of many more.

Oh yeah… have to add Horror movies. I know a whole bunch myself.

Quote from sushiyong

This is what has corrupted many, mostly hollywood made films. They want to put forth some unnecessary political agenda in their films instead of actually making a good movie with good storytelling.

Yeb. That’s why I enjoy Asian Dramas and European movies more.

Quote from selfmate

has there ever been a female lead action movie or even just a movie where the bad guys win???

Avengers Infinity War, several Star Wars episodes, Basic Instinct, Alien: Covenant, No country for old men.

Se7en… even though the villain dies, he still wins. It was a plot twist event you didn’t saw coming.

I would also add The Lovely Bones, cause even though the villain dies, he still got away with all his crimes and there was no justice for any of his victims … this movie really frustrated the hell out of me and I wish that I never saw it!

Quote from pinksz

I feel like they try to make their female leads the worst kind of "male character" possible but with gender reversed therefore they are good because MeN BaD woMeN GoOd bs rhetoric

idk how people still buy into this

This… they are literally turning these women into a bad version of a male character we thought we finally got rid off… after a while people where complaining about these overpowered Heroes that were able to beat everyone… so hero's were giving more depths, nuances, flaws, didn’t always win and made mistakes. Sometimes they even had to overthink their own morals…. They really had to challenge themself, which leads to great character development.

But for some reason, they don’t want to give women these interesting characters.

People aren’t buying into this anymore… that’s why these movies keep flopping. The only ones who at least survive financially are the franchises. Since they already have a huge following, many people are going to watch it in hopes it won’t get ruined, just to leave disappointed.

Quote from htd85s

They don’t know how to write female leads and to compensate for it they make female characters either a Mary Sue or the villain an one dimensional women hating bigot.

The sad part here is… it’s very often ( at least these days) women who write or direct (co direct) these movies tho. They had female executives responsible for this.

That’s why many are afraid to call it out. I mean women are already underrepresented in this men dominated industry, so many don’t want to criticize the few who finally got a chance to be heard. Which i can totally understand, I don’t wanna do that either… But some don’t wanna take responsibility for their bad work at all and blame all criticism on misogyny…..

But because of that, we keep getting these bad movies. So instead of criticizing, people show their dislike by not watching these movies.

Quote from selfmate

i meant female led movies (not just action movies) where the bad guys win...

i should have been more clear

Oh…well barely. Kill Bill is the one that comes to my mind too and Alien: Covenant.

Quote from pinksz

the problem is, no type of character need to be erased from existence (because the thing is a character is heavily defined by how other characters or the narrative reacts to this certain character you know what I mean, like toxic characters sometimes are very interesting as long as they are shown as they are, evil, etc no excuses no one going "yess king" "yaaas queen" you know thats what kills everything) imho like even before this stupid trend there was some mary sues around but they were usually called out when they were mean + obnoxious or toxic even the annoying golden girl hermione (tho she is not a mary sue exactly) from HP series was called out in the books times, the main problem now it feels like this type of female character is the "default" for a main lead heroine and the thing is the script, the other characters don't react realitisc to those characters (I know its fiction but when it comes to reaction + relationships + etc realism is very important tho there are excuses dependin on the genre) everyone seems to be needy or inferior to the lead heroines and "need" her presence making everyone else including the villains ridiculously dumbed down.

and like the over powered characters are already very difficult to be written for big screen or screens, like Superman he is my favorite superhero because he is the "ideal" one, but even super talented actors and writers have difficult making good content for him in live action because its difficult to sell this amazing out of reality fantasy and Superman is a great person (tho despite all that i heard superman and lois show is rlly good so far but i havent watched it) and making the general audience get interested on him is tricky I can see that even tho he is my fav (he really works in animation tho) now just imagine someone trying to sell a super sassy mouth never-do-wrong-even-tho-she-is-doing overpowered superhuman?? its not about gender its about the writters which are underestimating their audience because they think we gonna love it because "yaas queen GIRL BOSS uuuhul" nooo if even a likeable character like Superman is difficult to sell for the general audience can you imagine a obnoxious version of him? Ugh no way, I feel like it's all about blaming the audience that's my point like if you dislike idk Rey idk (i am away from SW) they gonna call us sexist (nvmnd i am a woman) thats kinda my point you know? They are using the audience as scapegoats for their bad writting and understimating them at the same time, this trend is not just sexist because selling female characters as flawless can do no wrong already powerful need no man snap queen, is just so hard to understand their real struggle (no need to be any of the mentioneds here they are random examples) its hard to understand why every character likes her when she is obnoxious and I can't create a connection neither care about those heroines because they feel like empty shells of what an ideal MAN would be in a man's fantasy world (not putting man down I am just not good with words)

~this is getting long but thats because I have a lot in mind sorry

for example iron man he is drunk he has problems but all his movies and story in the MCU made him likeable human and a figure to be remember, he is not supposed to already be respected and loved by everyone he worked his way and changed (I prefer only iron man in the movies in the comics its all more complicared) everyone kinda hated him at first you know? sometimes there are media that are falsely, must i say, labeled as toxic and I can see female characters waaay more relatable than those heroine girls bossess... ugh and like I understand that having a public cheering up for the character is good but it doesnt need to BE a thing, like harley quinn geez they fucked her up, they erased her most iconic era (classic) and jumped right to the point where she didnt wanted to be full time villain just to be a girlsboss ah gimme a break they ruined her, and while the joker gets a great movie showing as an unreliable narrator and showing us a VILLAIN, I love both characters so that was even more of a slap on the face they infantalize women (their audience) way too much! do they think we dont like flawed characters?

and they have a weird conception of what perfect is

You said everything.

They aren’t just underestimating their general audience, they literally don’t take their female audience serious, or think they all think like them. When these movies get called out for bad writing, it’s mostly men they call out for being sexist and they just can’t stand seeing a strong woman.

I mean Elizabeth Banks literally said her movie underperformed ( Charlie’s Angels) because men don’t wanna watch action movies with a female lead…. Totally ignoring all the women who complained about the movie as well and didn’t watched it either. And it’s a common pattern you see recently. Like you said they blame the audience for their bad writing.

I was as well so disappointed with what they did to Harley Quinn… she had so much potential, there is so much you could have done with that character. The comics have a lot of source material to use. Even if they wanted to turn this into emancipation journey… they could have just used her relationship to Joker… he literally messed up her mind. They missed an opportunity for a crazy psychological thriller. I heard Margot Robbie even dropped the role cause she thinks DC has no real plan for her….