It hurts seeing comments @@@0b96375b-abcd-439e-bf20-0cafa6a5d70b@@@, especially since I know this is mostly coming from other females… and they write this to defend men who everyone and their mothers know got an advantage in a men dominated industry, that on top of that is even mostly supported by females.
Sad just sad 
For those who don’t understand the problem here. People who write this are implying that the only reason women are successful in the music industry, is because they are created for male gaze, the only reason they get attention is because people (men) wanna bang them. If it wasn’t for the fact that they are women, their talent, skills and hard work wouldn’t have made them successful, cause they ain’t as good as men.
What they said is wrong but they are not saying what you said they’re saying
They’re saying sales or records for GGs are less than BGs. You can only say “top girl group” when you say “top group” they don’t have records any more.
It’s also a very wrong thing to say. But no need to add things that aren’t being told.
This is not what they are saying.
What they are saying is that female artists are less successful than men, and thus they need to only be compared with other female artists, or they will never win/achieve anything.
I don't like the wording but this is not what you are saying.
I guess this is only about kpop, because in the us industry this is kinda the opposite. Women are ruling the scene.
I wish people just crop the picture instead of brush over it . Coz u can still see it by just playing with the saturation,contast,etc .
What they said is wrong but they are not saying what you said they’re saying
They’re saying sales or records for GGs are less than BGs. You can only say “top girl group” when you say “top group” they don’t have records any more.
It’s also a very wrong thing to say. But no need to add things that aren’t being told.
I’m willing to edit the last part out. But there hasn’t been one debate I saw people having about this issue, without them ending up saying what I wrote at the end. Yeah the tweet didn’t said that specifically, but those who write this often think this way as well.
Your right shouldn’t have added more. But I it very often follows after statements like this….
Display MoreThis is not what they are saying.
What they are saying is that female artists are less successful than men, and thus they need to only be compared with other female artists, or they will never win/achieve anything.
I don't like the wording but this is not what you are saying.
I guess this is only about kpop, because in the us industry this is kinda the opposite. Women are ruling the scene.
Edited the last part out… yeah they didn’t specifically said it. But in discussions like this, people who write this will also say the following.
But it’s not bad wording, the person means what they said.
I wish people just crop the picture instead of brush over it . Coz u can still see it by just playing with the saturation,contast,etc .
Thanks for the tip
By wording, I mean that they are right in saying that it's harder for women in the industry, but their focus is all wrong.
Instead of acting as if it was because of the misoginy in the kpop industry ( which is ageist, focus more on looks for girls, give them less creative freedom... ), they are implying that this is because girls are by nature less talented/hard-working/whatever else, which is obviously untrue.
Eh did I misunderstand the 'your faves have nothing to offer besides being women' part or what based on these other responses
Imo the last line of the tweet clearly implies this. They are this successful only because they are women. I think everyone glossed over that line.
By wording, I mean that they are right in saying that it's harder for women in the industry, but their focus is all wrong.
Instead of acting as if it was because of the misoginy in the kpop industry ( which is ageist, focus more on looks for girls, give them less creative freedom... ), they are implying that this is because girls are by nature less talented/hard-working/whatever else, which is obviously untrue.
This is the misogyny I’m talking about. In this case internalized misogyny.
And what the last paragraph I wrote was referring too. I edited it out cause it’s true the poster wasn’t mentioning it, but if they start to further explain their reasoning behind thinking this way… many say what I wrote.
Display MoreThis is not what they are saying.
What they are saying is that female artists are less successful than men, and thus they need to only be compared with other female artists, or they will never win/achieve anything.
I don't like the wording but this is not what you are saying.
I guess this is only about kpop, because in the us industry this is kinda the opposite. Women are ruling the scene.
I think for solo artists, women are more dominant, whether in the west or korea (Hello IU?). But when it comes to GGs, not that obvious. Is it more about the bias of acts being groups? Like still many thinks that GGs and BGs cater towards younger generations - I mean even BGs have this stigma too.
So not sure if it’s really misogyny..
I’m confused? Is the person in the tweet indicating that women are only popular because they’re women?
Eh did I misunderstand the 'your faves have nothing to offer besides being women' part or what based on these other responses
Look at tic-tac-toes reply to me, my original post can be seen.
I said that those who write this often wanna imply that females are only successful because male gaze. I edited it out because the tweet didn’t specifically say it.
Anyway… they ain’t just talking about sales and records, they literally said without the “ female” they had no career… I think people missed that point..
I think for solo artists, women are more dominant, whether in the west or korea (Hello IU?). But when it comes to GGs, not that obvious. Is it more about the bias of acts being groups? Like still many thinks that GGs and BGs cater towards younger generations - I mean even BGs have this stigma too.
So not sure if it’s really misogyny..
Well the industry is dominated by men. People in power inside the labels, managers etc... are men, and I think with everything going on lately, this is something that needs to be adressed. Things are moving very slowly - enough to be encouraging, not enough to erase the gap yet.
This is not to say that BG don't have any hardship ( in a weird way they also suffer from misogyny too since their audience is mostly female and not taken seriously ), btw. It's just that women face a specific kind of hardships in the industry. I think we saw it with Kesha, Taylor etc...
I think for solo artists, women are more dominant, whether in the west or korea (Hello IU?). But when it comes to GGs, not that obvious. Is it more about the bias of acts being groups? Like still many thinks that GGs and BGs cater towards younger generations - I mean even BGs have this stigma too.
So not sure if it’s really misogyny..
What you mentioned and what the tweet said are two different things.
Look at tic-tac-toes reply to me, my original post can be seen.
I said that those who write this often wanna imply that females are only successful because male gaze. I edited it out because the tweet didn’t specifically say it.
Anyway… they ain’t just talking about sales and records, they literally said without the “ female” they had no career… I think people missed that point..
Ah I see, citing the male gaze could be assuming things but I think the original tweet was still misogynistic enough on its own lol
Ah, I see. So basically, according to the op’s logic in that tweet, the only way women can be successful is through a label. You take away that label, and they basically amount to nothing. Yikes..
They are specifically targeting BP. Their follow up tweet says despite being women they didn't have to work as hard many other women do and if they decide to stop making music right now and retreat back to Instagram they will still be fine. Unlike many other women who struggle a lot more. Their point is to use this argument for rich and privileged women is bastardisation. In fact the reason these rich women are even successful and never accountable for their lack of effort is because they are women and their fans who weaponize their gender. The tweet is not as much about feminism as it is about class privilege and the people in higher status quo escaping accountability by weaponizing their identity.
I'd like to bring up the recent criticism of Best-dressed, the youtuber/influencer.
She was criticized of being tone deaf and romanticizing the pandemic when she posted a very illustrious video edit of her reminiscing the past days. People accused her of not understand her privilege as a well off woman living in America (and romanticizing Europe) while her fans defended her by saying people only target women this badly and she was just coping in the best way she can.
Now both points are valid. Is Ashley privileged? She is. Should she have been a bit more conscious of her position as an influencer and a celebrity? Yes but people do target celebrities, especially women too. There is a constant criticism there but you cannot ignore her privilege too. There are women in third world countries who are struggling to eat one time meal in the pandemic. Whereas this women made a whole video which many perceived as romanticizing the pandemic. There are levels to status. This is why criticism and defense of celebrities will always be a complex conversation with no definite black and white.
They are specifically targeting BP. Their follow up tweet says despite being women they didn't have to work as hard many other women do and if they decide to stop making music right now and retreat back to Instagram they will still be fine. Unlike many other women who struggle a lot more. Their point is to use this argument for rich and privileged women is bastardisation. In fact the reason these rich women are even successful and never accountable for their lack of effort is because they are women and their fans who weaponize their gender. The tweet is not as much about feminism as it is about class privilege and the people in higher status quo escaping accountability by weaponizing their identity.
'lack of effort' ? LACK OF EFFORT ?
I'm sorry do you think being a kpop idol is easy as pie and that you can reach BP's level by accident ?
I don't think you realise how sexist the entire thing sound. 'They can become instagramer and be fine'. Is this supposed to be a diss ? Also what does being 'fine' mean ? They entered the kpop industry because they wanted to be idols, be on stage, connect with their fans through music. How is that different from the reason a BG enters the kpop industry ???
This kind of thing always infuriates me. As a working woman who faced misogyny and work place discrimination, I know for a fact that bias against professional women is a real thing that countless women around the world have to deal with in daily basis and which often sabotages and limits their potential. And most importantly the bias has nothing to do with women's professionalism, skills and work ethics. So seeing girls (most likely) perpetuates this kind of narrative is very sad. I tell myself they're probably still young and don't understand the full extent of their words, I hope they won't be subjected to the same disrespect and injustice they're subjecting female idols to, but I also hope they will grow up and understand how harmful this mindset is.
What's even sadder is they're most definitely doing this out of a misguided sense of protecting their male faves.
I think for solo artists, women are more dominant, whether in the west or korea (Hello IU?). But when it comes to GGs, not that obvious. Is it more about the bias of acts being groups? Like still many thinks that GGs and BGs cater towards younger generations - I mean even BGs have this stigma too.
So not sure if it’s really misogyny..
First of all the tweet is denying society's bias against women in the work place. Second, it literally says that being women is the only thing furthering female idols' careers, this obviously implies that women aren't as talented and respectable for their musicality as men, I'm being generous here because let's be real, it obviously has deeper and more disgusting implications.
How is this not misogyny?
They are specifically targeting BP. Their follow up tweet says despite being women they didn't have to work as hard many other women do and if they decide to stop making music right now and retreat back to Instagram they will still be fine. Unlike many other women who struggle a lot more. Their point is to use this argument for rich and privileged women is bastardisation. In fact the reason these rich women are even successful and never accountable for their lack of effort is because they are women and their fans who weaponize their gender. The tweet is not as much about feminism as it is about class privilege and the people in higher status quo escaping accountability by weaponizing their identity.
Oh, that tweet is much deeper than I thought. Well, in my honest opinion, the idea that women (specifically Blackpink) haven’t “struggled” enough is becoming a bit repetitive. See, here’s my problem. Just because someone hasn’t struggled to someone’s knowledge (because there’s no way to know if an artist has really struggled or not unless they are open about it, which very few artists are), why does that have to undermine their success? Is struggling a requirement now to be considered successful, or to be respected? I’m not in any way trying to put down women who have struggled, because believe me, I look up to them just as much as the next person, but I just don’t understand why artists HAVE to struggle in order to gain simple respect.
'lack of effort' ? LACK OF EFFORT ?
I'm sorry do you think being a kpop idol is easy as pie and that you can reach BP's level by accident ?
I don't think you realise how sexist the entire thing sound. 'They can become instagramer and be fine'. Is this supposed to be a diss ? Also what does being 'fine' mean ? They entered the kpop industry because they wanted to be idols, be on stage, connect with their fans through music. How is that different from the reason a BG enters the kpop industry ???
Training to be an idol is bare minimum. I studied 16 hours a day to get in my college. Do you know how much effort is that? Once again it's funny to see you throwing around words like sexism when all I see is an overemotional fan who lack education about the concept of intersectionality and is going crazy because the idols they have made their identity is not being worshipped. I do not wish to argue with you. It's futile. Kpop fans have never been good at recognizing privilege.
Oh, that tweet is much deeper that I thought. Well, in my honest opinion, the idea that women (specifically Blackpink) haven’t “struggled” enough is becoming a bit repetitive. See, here’s my problem. Just because someone hasn’t struggled to someone’s knowledge (because there’s no way to know if an artist has really struggled or not unless they are open about it, which very few artists are), why does that have to undermine their success? Is struggling a requirement now to be considered successful, or to be respected? I’m not in any way trying to put down women who have struggled, because believe me, I look up to them just as much as the next person, but I just don’t understand why artists HAVE to struggle in order to gain simple respect.
Exactly their success shouldn't be undermined. I think there are layers to that tweet. I do not agree with the outright dismissal because women of colour especially face a lot of scrutiny. But we cannot ignore that it's a very nuanced conversation and going on attack mode like the person above is not it.
Exactly… I don’t understand how some tried to excuse this.
Oh, that tweet is much deeper that I thought. Well, in my honest opinion, the idea that women (specifically Blackpink) haven’t “struggled” enough is becoming a bit repetitive. See, here’s my problem. Just because someone hasn’t struggled to someone’s knowledge (because there’s no way to know if an artist has really struggled or not unless they are open about it, which very few artists are), why does that have to undermine their success? Is struggling a requirement now to be considered successful, or to be respected? I’m not in any way trying to put down women who have struggled, because believe me, I look up to them just as much as the next person, but I just don’t understand why artists HAVE to struggle in order to gain simple respect.
Also I take issues with the glorification of struggling in that tweet. Instead of saying they struggle so much, the fans should take the approach that oppression Olympics is not it. You can be successful and respected without adding the element of struggle porn to it. The glamourization of a nobody to somebody is just as problematic. It's a mix of savior complex and schadenfreude
Exactly their success shouldn't be undermined. I think there are layers to that tweet. I do not agree with the outright dismissal because women of colour especially face a lot of scrutiny. But we cannot ignore that it's a very nuanced conversation and going on attack mode like the person above is not it.
I do think there are layers as well. And that’s true. Women of color do face a lot of obstacles when it comes to success, as well as respect. Which is upsetting to me when I read things such as that.
Training to be an idol is bare minimum. I studied 16 hours a day to get in my college. Do you know how much effort is that? Once again it's funny to see you throwing around words like sexism when all I see is an overemotional fan who lack education about the concept of intersectionality and is going crazy because the idols they have made their identity is not being worshipped. I do not wish to argue with you. It's futile. Kpop fans have never been good at recognizing privilege.
Okay ? But if someone were to tell you that the only reason you are in college is because you are a woman and your college wanted a specific ratio of girls in it ? Would you be 'oh ok, I'm privileged anyway, so many women out there don't have the possibility to come here so I guess all my efforts amount to nothing and I'm a lot less worthy of being there than my male counterparts'.
I'm well educated on the concept of intersectionality. Don't talk down on me, you don't know me, thank you very much.
But please explain to me why you are SPECIFICALLY calling BP 'lazy' and privileged ? As if they were so much less worthy of success than BGs. I don't care about you 'worshipping' them, but treating them as if they just sat on their ass and did nothing while success just built around them is dumb af.
I do think there are layers as well. And that’s true. Women of color do face a lot of obstacles when it comes to success, as well as respect. Which is upsetting to me when I read things such as that.
As a women of colour myself it's discouraging indeed.
Okay ? But if someone were to tell you that the only reason you are in college is because you are a woman and your college wanted a specific ratio of girls in it ? Would you be 'oh ok, I'm privileged anyway, so many women out there don't have the possibility to come here so I guess all my efforts amount to nothing and I'm a lot less worthy of being there than my male counterparts'.
I'm well educated on the concept of intersectionality. Don't talk down on me, you don't know me, thank you very much.
But please explain to me why you are SPECIFICALLY calling BP 'lazy' and privileged ? As if they were so much less worthy of success than BGs. I don't care about you 'worshipping' them, but treating them as if they just sat on their ass and did nothing while success just built around them is dumb af.
You were hysterical in your first post. I had to talk down on you.
I didn't call BP lazy. I do agree that they are privileged. How about instead of playing oppression olympics and trying to get across that they struggle a lot, you normalize not romanticizing struggling?
And I am glad we don't know each other. You are too overemotional for us to get along well.
Also I take issues with the glorification of struggling in that tweet. Instead of saying they struggle so much, the fans should take the approach that oppression Olympics is not it. You can be successful and respected without adding the element of struggle porn to it. The glamourization of a nobody to somebody is just as problematic. It's a mix of savior complex and schadenfreude
I do think that is a bit problematic, yes. I’ve seen a lot of people use struggles as a way to put another person or artist down, which in my opinion, is no good. Struggles shouldn’t be used to parade and bring down someone, yet boost them up and inspire. It seems like it’s not used for those things a lot of times, which is the main problem I have with it.
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