People who stream are still “fans”

  • People don't consider IU fan driven though. Her achievements are not ridiculed like others are.


    I think the point of this thread is if acts consistently get some amount of uls than they are fans. It's not just first hours that count. SOME songs of acts are heard outside of their regular fans and thus perform better than their songs perform on a regular basis.


    For Twice I think they lost part of the fanbase that streams more and were fickle. And I think their album sales are not growing, but are more stable.

    Almost every song/album that IU releases achieves viral-level stats tho in terms of digital sales. So either her fandom is so big that they're able to give her SOTY-level sales with every release, or she also has GP support in addition to large digital listener base.


    Going off what was said earlier in the conversation that all national-level hit songs need some kind of non-fan support in addition to fans - so either IU fanbase is that big, or her songs get a lot of non-fan support, or IU is just an anomaly and doesn't rly fit well into this narrative.

  • TBH Bol4's songs were mostly Jiyoung's voice anyway so I don't know how much the other member leaving played a part in the poor digital charting - imo the problem was that Bol4 kept releasing the same sound with every release, and listeners got tired of it (unlike what OP says in the first post, I actually think casual listeners tend to punish artists who release the same kind of song over and over). I hope she'll try something new/fresh for her next comeback.

    But the downfall started from there. I remember the leo doing kind of decent. It had a good start with 700k+ uls(if i am not wrong). And then she bombed. I do hope she rises from this.

    And u got a good point about casual listeners. R casual listeners as loyal as stans who'll listen no matter what? No they won't.

    Even look at akmu's recent song. They have fans but it still tanked. Again maybe too many casuals?

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  • Almost every song/album that IU releases achieves viral-level stats tho in terms of digital sales. So either her fandom is so big that they're able to give her SOTY-level sales with every release, or she also has GP support in addition to large digital listener base.


    Going off what was said earlier in the conversation that all national-level hit songs need some kind of non-fan support in addition to fans - so either IU fanbase is that big, or her songs get a lot of non-fan support, or IU is just an anomaly and doesn't rly fit well into this narrative.

    The point is about consistency I think.


    If IU gets that non fan support for her songs CONSISTENTLY then at what point do they stop being Non-fans? And At what point are they called fans.? IU does get that and that's why I think she has one of the biggest fanbases. This is not a bad thing at all btw.


    Other digimons that you mentioned, AKMU I would say are pretty consistent but Zico isn't.

    I would say they are fickle fans.

    Epik high had a good listener fanbase too but they didn't do too well after the chart change. That's a lot of fickle fans who didn't even check them out after.

    For legal reasons: many of the things I say are said jokingly, take them as such :wilds::oks:

  • I thought this was because of someone saying something about Baekhyun lol.

    He just released an album, Chanyeol released a song, you didn't like them?

    Hahah. No no I made many threads on the comebacks too.


    Nothing in particular prompted this thread.

  • But the downfall started from there. I remember the leo doing kind of decent. It had a good start with 700k+ uls(if i am not wrong). And then she bombed. I do hope she rises from this.

    And u got a good point about casual listeners. R casual listeners as loyal as stans who'll listen no matter what? No they won't.

    Even look at akmu's recent song. They have fans but it still tanked. Again maybe too many casuals?

    I think they are fickle fans but fans nonetheless. There's so many types of fans but people in general only consider people who buy albums as fans lol idk why

    For legal reasons: many of the things I say are said jokingly, take them as such :wilds::oks:

  • I was talking about the one who released solo songs and albums these days. Many people said she'll be fine after the break up cause the other member didn't do much or something. She tanked. Their fans left.

    They had fans that mostly left last year then for whatever reason

  • But the downfall started from there. I remember the leo doing kind of decent. It had a good start with 700k+ uls(if i am not wrong). And then she bombed. I do hope she rises from this.

    And u got a good point about casual listeners. R casual listeners as loyal as stans who'll listen no matter what? No they won't.

    Even look at akmu's recent song. They have fans but it still tanked. Again maybe too many casuals?

    "Leo" did well but I think it was helped by the Bol4 x Baekhyun collab hype (I remember seeing a lot of news articles about it). imo "Leo" and "Hug" also sounded too similar. She should've chosen a title song that stood out from the pre-release track.


    The chart reform badly hurt digital artists that depend more on casual listeners. With the way Melon and Flo work now, it's easy for new songs to fall through the cracks unless there are loyal listeners or the song just pops off. Probably doesn't help that pandemic has made promoting songs on shows/fanmeets/etc harder too.

  • I think they are fickle fans but fans nonetheless. There's so many types of fans but people in general only consider people who buy albums as fans lol idk why

    I agree. In kpop fans r considered as album buyers. I guess it shows they are willing to spend money over something they won't use. Very few people use cds. People only buy albums for goodies.

    Fans come in all forms.

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  • "Leo" did well but I think it was helped by the Bol4 x Baekhyun collab hype (I remember seeing a lot of news articles about it). imo "Leo" and "Hug" also sounded too similar. She should've chosen a title song that stood out from the pre-release track.


    The chart reform badly hurt digital artists that depend more on casual listeners. With the way Melon and Flo work now, it's easy for new songs to fall through the cracks unless there are loyal listeners or the song just pops off. Probably doesn't help that pandemic has made promoting songs on shows/fanmeets/etc harder too.

    Actually when i think about it gidle, itzy ended up doing better than akmu, Tayeon and epik high with the system reform. And those three had songs go over 900k uls. Gidle and itzy fans held on to the songs i guess.

    I remember even bsides charting in top100 for epik high and taeyeon. Expected them to have better performance overall.

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  • I fought many a battle on the old forum about this very topic.


    To me, the terms "general public support" and "casual listener" both are used incorrectly by Kpop fans.


    So many times i read people saying they stream a song but only consider themselves "casual listeners". I'm like, bruh, if you actively make a choice to put a song on your playlist because you like it, you're not a casual listener, you're a casual fan at least. Casual listeners are people who just listen to radio or let YT algorithms determine their songlist while they're working out at the gym. If you're actively choosing a song to listen to, by definition you aint a neutral listener anymore.


    The term general public support is similarly problematic. If you're supporting someone, by definition, you're not a member of the "general public" anymore. You're at the very least a casual fan. Maybe not a hardcore fan that buys all the albums and merch, but STILL a fan nonetheless. Also, to claim that any artist has GP support doesnt really make sense since the GP is ginormous. IU supposedly has widespread GP support but look at her streaming numbers (only 500k UL on Melon, maybe another 500k on Genie, Bugs, Flo etc) and compare them to the general population of Korea (50 million) - shouldnt someone who supposedly has GP support have at least 25M Koreans streaming her songs?


    All that said, i've already given up on my arguments and now just use these terms the same way everyone else does lol. It was a losing battle trying to change people's minds.

  • You bring up really good points honestly. :pepe-tea:

    For legal reasons: many of the things I say are said jokingly, take them as such :wilds::oks:

  • i believe casual listener can still be someone who only listen to several songs they like from an artist. For example, i only put Maria by Hwasa on my playlist, only one song of her. I am not a fan, not even a casual fan by any standard. I'm a casual listener.

  • Exactly. Especially the fans who wait for an artist's song to come out and stream first day. Or the ones who sign up to Spotify first day it becomes available and follow an artist. Theyre all fans. The fact some fans are streamers and no buyers doesnt make them non-fans.


    Considering something like 24h unique listeners as showing anything but fandom size is dumb.

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  • 1. You can be a casual fan of a song but that doesn't mean you're a casual fan of the artist. Just because I put a song from someone on my playlist does not mean I'm interested in listening to their other songs or even listening to their next new release. Or do you not differentiate between the fan of a song vs fan of the artist?


    2. You can't compare streaming ULs to general population - it's about sample size. Not all 50 million people in SK use subscription music services. IU has the highest ULs (800k+) of any artist on the biggest streaming service - by your definition, there would be NO celebrities with widespread support. It's like saying just because Yoo Jaesuk's TV show pulls in 4-6% ratings (meaning 4-6% of the general population), then he doesn't have widespread GP support. That's just not true.

  • Here's a different analogy. When a boy group starts the preorders of an album fans but before even listening to it. When a digimon releases a song it tops the chart or rises high in its first hour which means people buy it before they even have a time to like it. It's the same behaviour, these people are buying into a brand because they like previous content and feel a kind of trust toward the brand. They're fans.

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