(TW: Abortion) I'm so confused so please help

Ok, I see you're not playing it safe.

Quote from JaedaKim

??? In what way. I already looked it up and found some things but I want to talk to actual people and try to understand

I mean it's not the kind of topic that goes smoothly in general.

Imo, abortion is ok if:

1) mom or baby will have/have health problems bc of/after birth

2) mom is very young, <17

3) rape

I dont hate people who do it, I just think that as a grown person in today's time we should be capable of taking care about those things (unwanted pregnancy) without abortion.

its okay imo

if you feel like you are not in the situation to give a proper upbringing to your child......yeah rather not have it and give it a miserable life

Sounds like a valid reason too. Add it to the list.

Quote from dong-thefirst

its okay imo

if you feel like you are not in the situation to give a proper upbringing to your child......yeah rather not have it and give it a miserable life

I agree with this and bc of it I dont judge someone who abort... I just dont understand why they dont use protection. You have protection for men and women, than pill for a day after if you see that there was problem with condom or something. Why you dont use it!??? Possibility of staying pregnant with all this is like so small, almost impossible!

Why are you waiting to come to abortion!?? You will pay more for that abortion than for pretection if reason is money. If reason is "it isnt the same", than you are just an idiot.

Quote from Jk996

I agree with this and bc of it I dont judge someone who abort... I just dont understand why they dont use protection. You have for protection for men and women, than pill for a day after if you see that there was problem with condom or something. Why you dont use it!??? Possibility of staying pregnant with all this is like so small, almost impossible!

Why are you waiting to come to abortion!?? You will pay more for that abortion than for pretection if reason is money. If reason is "it isnt the same", than you are just idiot.

I think we all need to have in mind that the morning-after pill isn't like taking an aspirin and it's not recommended using it as the main form of birth control, it messes up with the women's body completely. And there are many cases of women who got pregnant even after taking it.

I mean, I'm a man so I don't think my opinion should matter in the same way that it does a woman's, but I'll say this.
It's a woman's body to do with it the way she wishes.

Personally, I see 0 wrong with abortion being performed at any time before a baby would be able to survive on its own outside of the womb.

Quote from Mark-Lee

I think we all need to have in mind that the morning-after pill isn't like taking an aspirin and it's not recommended using it as the main form of birth control, it messes up with the women's body completely. And there are many cases of women who got pregnant even after taking it.

When you see the other things didnt work (example: condom breaks), you can use it. This doesnt happen so often.

Edit: And I wont even mention that there are bunch of the ways women can protect herself too without both, condoms and morning-after pills.

Quote from Jk996

When you see the other things didnt work (example: condom breaks), you can use it. This doesnt happen so often.

I know, I was just trying to clarify that morning-after pills cannot be used every other week (which is very common for some women to do so), only under extreme circumstances.

Nobody has the right to sentence anyone to parenthood.

Birth control is not 100% foolproof and some people really shouldn't be parents

If someone decides they aren't ready for kids, that's their right and the responsible thing to do.

It's not a decision that people make lightly and it is scaring for a lot of people

Quote from ill-pray-4-u

Personally, I see 0 wrong with abortion being performed at any time before a baby would be able to survive on its own outside of the womb.

And how long after conception is that?

abortion prevents parents from abusing unwanted children. abortion prevents children from growing up in poverty. abortion prevents new people for having to spend their days slaving away to survive in this capitalist society. abortion prevents women from dying because something went wrong with their pregnancy. abortion prevents more resources being used on a planet where resources are already over-used. abortion is a good thing. although i don't see what it has to do with k-pop.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

And how long after conception is that?

I'm not a doctor or scientist, but I do know that it's very difficult for a baby to survive, even with heaps of medical support and various machines, if born before the 24 week mark. So I guess the minimum would be about 5 and a half months after conception.

Quote from itgirl-jennie

abortion prevents parents from abusing unwanted children. abortion prevents children from growing up in poverty. abortion prevents new people for having to spend their days slaving away to survive in this capitalist society. abortion prevents women from dying because something went wrong with their pregnancy. abortion prevents more resources being used on a planet where resources are already over-used. abortion is a good thing. although i don't see what it has to do with k-pop.

you said it perfectly

(btw it is in the current events, politics, religion section haha)

Quote from ill-pray-4-u

I'm not a doctor or scientist, but I do know that it's very difficult for a baby to survive, even with heaps of medical support and various machines, if born before the 24 week mark. So I guess the minimum would be about 5 and a half months after conception.

So is a 5-month abortion ok? Like, we're ok with throwing tiny babies in the trash can?

I’m honestly really half and half about abortion. I feel like if a person feels as though they are not fit to have a child in that moment, or something else in that category, it is 100% their decision and their right to do as they please. On the other hand, thinking about unborn children being aborted makes me sad. Even though I understand that mothers abort their children because they are in difficult circumstances, it still hurts me to know that a child won’t ever get to experience life.

Quote from crystalblues

People need to accept that adoption/foster care is an horrid option most of the time and is not always an option at all. Also just as horrid is forcing someone to have a child they do not want as they will likely abuse the hell out of the child or be traumatized for the rest of their life depending on their situation.

I think the discussion is (or should be) more contraception vs abortion, rather than foster care/adoption vs abortion. I mean, obviously extreme situations lead to extreme measures.

But if we're strictly speaking of normal people getting pregnant within normal relationships, how come some of them resort to abortion rather than contraception? This doesn't sound right to me.

Quote from ill-pray-4-u

I'm not a doctor or scientist, but I do know that it's very difficult for a baby to survive, even with heaps of medical support and various machines, if born before the 24 week mark. So I guess the minimum would be about 5 and a half months after conception.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

So is a 5-month abortion ok? Like, we're ok with throwing tiny babies in the trash can?

An overwhelming majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester. Women who wait that long to abort were either prevented from getting one earlier or have developed health issues that threaten them and the fetus.

Here's the thing, I don't think it is relevant whether or not the fetus is considered a person or that the potential baby could grow and become a person with a great life. The real issue is bodily autonomy.

It doesn't really matter if a life is involved, you can't force someone to give up their body to save this person.

Here is the metaphor I like to use; imagine if someone was dying of blood loss, and you have the right blood type for that person. Should we force blood donation on you? Of course not. Even if it would save a life? Still no. Disregarding bodily autonomy to "save lives" sets a questionable precedent for other issues. Under this logic, forced organ and blood donation should be a thing as well.

Quote from chainyviolet

It doesn't really matter if a life is involved, you can't force someone to give up their body to save this person.

Here is the metaphor I like to use; imagine if someone was dying of blood loss, and you have the right blood type for that person. Should we force blood donation on you? Of course not. Even if it would save a life? Still no. Disregarding bodily autonomy to "save lives" sets a questionable precedent for other issues. Under this logic, forced organ and blood donation should be a thing as well.

It's a flawed comparison. Getting pregnant is not something that happens to you out of nowhere. IN MOST CASES it's a situation you put yourself into. So it doesn't compare at all to your blood donation analogy.

Quote from chainyviolet

Here's the thing, I don't think it is relevant whether or not the fetus is considered a person or that the potential baby could grow and become a person with a great life. The real issue is bodily autonomy.

It doesn't really matter if a life is involved, you can't force someone to give up their body to save this person.

Here is the metaphor I like to use; imagine if someone was dying of blood loss, and you have the right blood type for that person. Should we force blood donation on you? Of course not. Even if it would save a life? Still no. Disregarding bodily autonomy to "save lives" sets a questionable precedent for other issues. Under this logic, forced organ and blood donation should be a thing as well.

Sorry, but what's this example? Blood donation will do absolutely nth to you, while it will save someone's life. Why would someone even have to force you to save someone for 0 suffering!??

Also, forced blood and organ donation is completelly different too....

Quote from Jk996

Sorry, but what's this example? Blood donation will do absolutly nth to you, while it will save someone's life. Why would someone even have to force you to save someone for 0 suffering!??

Also, forced blood and organ donation is completelly different too....

It doesn't matter whether it "does something" to you. You can't force people to take parts of your body for any reason. Regardless of whether it isn't painful or whatever, you should not be forced to do it if you don't want to.

The logic behind forcing blood donation, organ donation, and abortion is the same. I'm not saying the process is the same.

Quote from chainyviolet

It doesn't matter whether it "does something" to you. You can't force people to take parts of your body for any reason. Regardless of whether it isn't painful or whatever, you should not be forced to do it if you don't want to.

The logic behind forcing blood donation, organ donation, and abortion is the same. I'm not saying the process is the same.

Sorry, but I cant accept this.... I mean, ofc, noone should force someone. But the view that someone is ready to let someone die just bc he/she doesnt want to give blood and that it's completelly ok is very idiotic.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

It's a flawed comparison. Getting pregnant is not something that happens to you out of nowhere. IN MOST CASES it's a situation you put yourself into. So it doesn't compare at all to your blood donation analogy.

Okay, but it doesn't matter whether or not you put yourself in the situation, that doesn't mean you should be forced to go through a pregnancy. If for some reason I caused physical harm to someone, and I could save their life by donating my blood, that doesn't mean I would have to donate my blood. And what about cases where pregnancy isn't the fault of the person? Would you force pregnancy then? In that case, it's less about protecting life and projecting what you deem to be, "the right consequences".

In which case, why does going through pregnancy have to be the consequence? Abortion can also be a way of dealing with the consequences. Why one and not the other?

Quote from Jk996

Sorry, but I cant accept this.... I mean, ofc, noone should force someone. But the view that someone is ready to let someone die just bc he/she doesnt want to give blood and that it's completelly ok is very idiotic.

I can understand that, but ultimately that is their choice. That's why we don't legally force people to do it. I'm not arguing whether or not people should donate their blood. I'm arguing that they shouldn't be legally obligated to.

Idk why people go into such high ways with this...

The question here should be just and only: "Why you dont use contraceptions which are better for everyone, safer for everyone (not to even mention sexual diseases), cheaper and easier!??". Why do you let it happen in the first place!?

Quote from Jk996

Idk why people go into such high ways with this...

The question here should be just and only: "Why you dont use contraceptions which are better for everyone, safer for everyone (not to even mention sexual diseases), cheaper and easier!??". Why do you let it happen in the first place!?

people do use contraception. but contraception isn't 100% foolproof. sometimes it fails, and when it fails, people need abortions.

Quote from itgirl-jennie

people do use contraception. but contraception isn't 100% foolproof. sometimes it fails, and when it fails, people need abortions.

It's very rare... Do you know how many abortions a year happen!?? Not even 1/10 of this is bc contraception fails....

Quote from JaedaKim

I agree that it is painful to think about

I'm sorry about your experiences but would you rather have killed your beautiful son instead

Organ and blood donation is nothing like abortion. Abortion is the actual act of killing a baby, organ and blood donation is giving up something you can usually live fully well without to save someone else's life.

You're misunderstanding my point. It doesn't matter whether you can live without your blood, organs, or if you'll live perfectly fine doing pregnancy. You can not be forced to use your body regardless of there is life on the line. Some people can die from not getting the blood or organs they need, but you can't force people to give those parts of their body up.

No one is obligated to be forced to use their body to carry a pregnancy. If they want to "kill the baby", it's their choice since you can not force them to give up their body for 9 months to give birth to it.