What do you think about Trump's goal to end birthright citizenship?

    Do you support an end to birthright citizenship in the United States? 6

    1. No (4) 67%
    2. Yes (2) 33%

    A federal judge temporarily blocks Trump’s executive order redefining birthright citizenship
    A federal judge has temporarily blocked President Donald Trump’s executive order ending the constitutional guarantee of birthright citizenship regardless of…
    apnews.com


    "Connecticut Attorney General William Tong, for instance, a U.S. citizen by birthright and the nation’s first Chinese American elected attorney general, said the lawsuit was personal for him."


    It's also personal for me, as I am also a U.S. citizen by birthright. Trump wanting to end birthright citizenship is one of the reasons why I am running for Mayor of my city this year.


    If I become elected president (which I do want to be), assuming this decision takes effect, I will reverse this decision, unless some previous president has done so already.

    Edited once, last by bethesda: Added poll ().

    I agree in principle. Citizenship should not be based only on the location of birth and should have more factors.


    But it is the execution that is concern, lot of lives can be disrupted, if the execution of the policy is bad.

    And generally government bureaucracy is not known for sensible execution. It is a blunt tool.

    Doesn't matter what anyone thinks, it's unconstitutional. Just the first of many examples to come of Trump trying to make laws that are literally illegal. Lord knows there were plenty in his first term.

    I'm not american so I can't really understand the whole context about immigrants, but from a south american standpoint this seems so crazy to me, like if someone is born here they're a citizen of this country

    Quote from bethesda

    Why do you think there should be more factors? I think if there should be more factors, then there would have to be a supplement for the 1st section of the 14th Amendment.

    Because while diversity is nice, there should be underlying unity and any collective identity needs something shared - history, ideology, values etc.


    Citizenship should be based on such things, than just location of birth. But birth can be one of the criteria.


    Of course, even generational citizens sometimes fall off such things, but the probability of that happening is more with new entrants.



    I don't know the mechanics of US Constitution, to comment on the specifics.

    But just providing a generic point of view.

    Applicable for any nation.

    Quote from StelloMomoDay

    I think if your parents are legal citizens when you're born, you should also be a legal citizen upon birth. I think if your parents are not legal citizens when you're born, you should not be a legal citizen upon birth.


    That's the most logical way to do it.

    My parents are not legal citizens, but I am a citizen of the United States because I was born in the United States. I can tell because I can still run for President of the United States once I'm at least 35 years old because I was born in the United States with no doubt unlike Obama who some say was born in Kenya and not Hawaii.


    Also, I have the right to vote in the United States, and I even worked for the government last year at a polling station. Only US citizens have the right to vote, and also the right to work for the US government.


    The president cannot repeal an amendment by himself because of separation of powers. It's an old thing invented way before our time!


    https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/intro.7-2/ALDE_00000031/

    Quote from bethesda

    My parents are not legal citizens, but I am a citizen of the United States because I was born in the United States. I can tell because I can still run for President of the United States once I'm at least 35 years old because I was born in the United States with no doubt unlike Obama who some say was born in Kenya and not Hawaii.


    Also, I have the right to vote in the United States, and I even worked for the government last year at a polling station. Only US citizens have the right to vote, and also the right to work for the US government.

    I'm happy for you, but I think the law should change

    Quote from StelloMomoDay

    Laws change every day in every country

    And every country is different.


    If a law is changed in a country like the United States, it's based on legal grounds. Someone becoming a US citizen is automatic if someone is born in the United States or has at least one parent born in the United States.


    If a law is changed in a country like North Korea, it's based on whatever they want to do, whenever.

    Quote from bethesda

    Do you think it'll come to pass despite its unconstitutionality?

    Of course not, because it's not possible. Nothing supersedes the constitution. The only thing you can do is try to amend it, which is also not a possiblity in this case, as an amendment needs to be ratified by at least 38 out of 50 states, and Trump already has 22 of them suing him over this little idea. This proposal was already dead on arrival before this conversation even began.


    Quote from bethesda

    I was born in the United States with no doubt unlike Obama who some say was born in Kenya and not Hawaii.

    Yeah, some idiots do say that.

  • AllKill VIP

    Obviously stupid. Anyone with basic literacy skills, who knows the basics of common law, who can take a week to read through some of the important cases and history, would tell you that birthright citizenship is how America has operated.


    Of course, whether the people in his administration thinks it will work or not doesn't matter: he just needs to have the optics of it. Of course, birthright citizenship being how America accepted citizens before even 1776 when it was still a colony, we only just now think everyone else for the past few hundred years have been getting it wrong. And by "we" I mean some grifters that sell out meme crypto coins.


    What's more hilarious is that, even in conservative communities, most people are just in a "wait and see how it goes" stance. Even they know it's bullshit and are just hoping SCOTUS decides to just fold here.

    Quote from Varenka

    What's more hilarious is that, even in conservative communities, most people are just in a "wait and see how it goes" stance. Even they know it's bullshit and are just hoping SCOTUS decides to just fold here.

    Are you saying that if the president tries to take away birthright citizenship via executive order, that executive order would go directly to SCOTUS?

  • AllKill VIP
  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from bethesda

    I bet that SCOTUS' interpretation would result in a rejection, meaning that everyone born in the United States automatically has birthright citizenship regardless of anyone trying to take it away.

    That's been the mainstream interpretation for centuries. However, some conservatives have made this a0 pet argument, and now we're all supposed to pretend it's debatable.

  • AllKill VIP

    I think the Executive Order is to bring challenges in the Courts . Appealing it all the way to the SCOTUS.

    14th Amendment says allot about US Citizen offspring being born inside US Jurisdictions or in Foreign Countries.

    The freed slaves became Citizens was the intent of Born Citizenship of their offspring. Otherwise its all about a Parent being a US Citizen.

    I'm going to be Patient, it could take a few Years before the SCOTUS decides. Meantime it gets bounced around in Federal Courts then to appeals.


    14th Amendment first issue is Qualifications to hold High Office. President and US Senator have to be a Natural Born US Citizen. Basically Born a US Citizen. Foreigner who became a US Citizen can't hold High Offices. A Child born after their Citizenship Oath is a Natural born citizen.


    What is being Contested is a Child born to Foreign Parents in the US Jurisdiction.

    Quote from Varenka

    That's been the mainstream interpretation for centuries. However, some conservatives have made this a0 pet argument, and now we're all supposed to pretend it's debatable.

    Look at what I've got:


    IMG_3717.jpg


    I bet (and hope) the author will write another book like that after Trump leaves office in 2029. This time including the fix of a president trying to strip birthright citizenship.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from bethesda

    Look at what I've got:


    IMG_3717.jpg


    I bet (and hope) the author will write another book like that after Trump leaves office in 2029. This time including the fix of a president trying to strip birthright citizenship.

    I've never heard of this.


    But I'm sure there will be. A more liberal SCOTUS is this one decides to mess this up.

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from bethesda

    Mess what up? The book? Nah. Not gonna happen. The book was written by Allan Lichtman, his wife, his literary agent, his long-time editor, staff at the book publisher's company, and his research assistants.

    SCOTUS and the interpretation, I mean.

    Quote from 4NIA4

    What is being Contested is a Child born to Foreign Parents in the US Jurisdiction.

    It's not being seriously contested, as those children are already afforded citizenship under the constitution and, as I've already explained, Trump lacks the support needed to cancel out that amendment with a new one. The SCROTUS won't uphold his order either if they want to keep their jobs.

    Quote from Popper-of-Ks

    It's not being seriously contested, as those children are already afforded citizenship under the constitution and, as I've already explained, Trump lacks the support needed to cancel out that amendment with a new one. The SCROTUS won't uphold his order either if they want to keep their jobs.

    It's in the White House website:

    Protecting The Meaning And Value Of American Citizenship – The White House
    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered: Section 1.
    www.whitehouse.gov


    "the privilege of United States citizenship does not automatically extend to persons born in the United States: (1) when that person’s mother was unlawfully present in the United States and the father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth, or (2) when that person’s mother’s presence in the United States at the time of said person’s birth was lawful but temporary (such as, but not limited to, visiting the United States under the auspices of the Visa Waiver Program or visiting on a student, work, or tourist visa) and the father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth."


    It's better off said than done!


    Trump birthright citizenship order dealt setback on busy day for administration
    It was another busy day for President Donald Trump’s administration, as he suffered a setback in a lawsuit against his birthright citizenship executive order.
    www.nbcchicago.com


    "Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker also praised the decision, saying in a social media post Trump “doesn’t have the power to rewrite the Constitution with a simple stroke of his Sharpie.”"


    "Attorneys argued that the order violated the 14th Amendment, which guarantees those born in the United States automatic citizenship. Trump is seeking to remove that guarantee from children born to parents who are in the country without authorization."

  • AllKill VIP

    SCOTUS will look into British Law as the US Citizenship is modeled after it. US jurisdiction is the make or break on Born Citizenship. Below is UK Citizenship Jurisdiction. US 14th is the same jurisdiction.


    Is a child born in the UK automatically a British Citizen?

    Quote

    In some jurisdictions, being born in a country gives you a certain legal right to citizenship, but this is not always the case in the UK. The determination of whether or not a child holds British citizenship when they are born in the UK depends on the citizenship or immigration status of their parents, rather than where they were born.


    https://latitudelaw.com/news/i…born-uk-a-british-citizen

  • AllKill VIP
    Quote from 4NIA4

    SCOTUS will look into British Law as the US Citizenship is modeled after it. US jurisdiction is the make or break on Born Citizenship. Below is UK Citizenship Jurisdiction. US 14th is the same jurisdiction.


    Is a child born in the UK automatically a British Citizen?

    This is the UK as of the 1980s. English common law, which is what textualist judges will actually look at, supports birthright citizenship, which is why the UK had to change it in the first place.


    Birthright citizenship used to be the norm. It's not a coincidence that the new world is composed of countries that, almost all, accept birthright citizenship.

    Quote from BEG4DAWIN

    Unconstitutional.


    But of note, I am pretty sure South Korea (most of the world outside the Americas) does not have Birthright citizenship.

    It's only most of the Americas, Angola, Tanzania, and Pakistan that offer unconditional birthright citizenship.


    birthright-citizenship-map.jpg


    It would be nice to put an end to anchor babies and birth tourism (mainly from China).

    im not american or anything , but if say you're from somewhere in the world and u get pregnant and u fly out to the USA and give birth just to say your child is american is shady af. So i mean, they should probably not end the birthright but make rules around it to prevent this from happening

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