What do you guys think of kpop fans celebrating seungri's birthday

Quote from superyeah

Snoop Dogg committed the same crime Seungri did and he still gets a lot of love from fans and other celebrities. That's not something people bring up because pimping was even glorified at that time. I doubt Snoop would be tolerated if it had been 2023 at the time of his conviction.

At the end of the day, it's up to people how they perceive it, and perception is everything in the K-pop world. Any crime gets you officially or unofficially blacklisted for life, even if it's smoking weed in the privacy of your own space.

For one, I can't look at Seungri the same way again. He had everything good going for him, but he messed it up with an illicit side hustle. The worst part was his derrogatory language about the women he "worked with."

This is true but there is also something called relativism. Snoop is an african american who grew up in the hood. Joining the gang and doing drugs was a freaking Monday for him. And as his music career grew he left all of that behind. Well...except for smoking pot of course.

Meanwhile it is the opposite for Seungri. He grew up in a middle class family, his Monday was going to a dance club. And then he succeeded as a BigBang member, became a millionaire celebrity in his fucking early 20s, achieving what others could only dream of. And then he decides to break the law, see where I am getting? I can't sympathize with this. He absolutely didn't need to do all this shit, he chose to do it.

Quote from ladidaladidadida

Oh, yeah, because we can only abominate rapists if they've been convicted? Ok, cool.

The evidence is damning. Under his guidance (texts to prove this), his club drugged women and sold them for sex. So, nah, I'm not going to be, oh, people have different values, yadada, wimp ass bullshit. Anyone who wants to celebrate him, particularly women because, hey, he don't give a fuc about you and sees you as inferior, an object, is fucking stupid. Fuck that guy.

ahhh so you can substitute your point of view into things to the exclusion of either the law or other evidence?

I mean if one ignores the law and what it stands for then what's the point of even having laws?

the law isn't perfect - trials aren't perfect - sentencing isn't perfect but isn't that why in certain countries such as SK it's a democracy and the voters vote in the politicians who make the laws (for the most part for the benefit of all)?

if one ignores all that and calls things how we see it from our SUBJECTIVE point of view - isn't that just anarchy? why do your views on certain things matter more than say mine or even Seungris

you say the evidence is damning - I don't remember what they are since it was so long ago but obviously a court and a judge with much more experience in these things than you or I considered such evidence and made a judgment accordingly...are you claiming the judge is wrong that you know more about SK laws and evidence than a judge???

again I'm not disputing your rights to say he is a piece of shit - in fact I agree with you but like i said others don't necessarily have to agree with our positions

Quote from Daisy_Queen

SK is pretty infamous for their laughably light conviction and sentencing over sex crimes, this isnt a setting or circumstance where blind faith in the system really works. There were plenty of instances of the police receiving reports/being on scene with some of the events at BS and turning the other way. It took footage of a man being beaten and a blue house petition with tens of thousands of supporters for an investigation to even happen.

Even in the molka/gangrape case, most of the offenders that were convicted are either already out or to be released within the next year or so. Most of the investors got away with it completely.

then what does one want to do with such information?

discount everything completely and substitute our own judgment?

every time we disagree with a judgment/verdict we go nope my judgment is that he (or she) should have been guilty (or innocent) and that's the view I'm sticking with?

which brings me back to my point - why your judgment why not mine or the minions or ladidas judgment?

isn't that because we don't have the power we didn't see all the evidence/ in person testimonies/ witness' credibility's / go through years of law school and being a lawyer and a judge and that all and thus ours is merely an opinion and thus an opinion can have differing views on things

and as I said to ladida they have every right to that opinion just as those seungri fans have a right to theirs in their continued support of him - and we can call them out for their support since they are supporting a bad person

Quote from ladidaladidadida

Lol. You think you sound smart. But I can read you and know exactly who you are. For many we understand the pitfalls of and biases within the law. Seems you're privileged enough to not have to deal with it, lucky boyyyyyyyyyyy.

whether I am or not isn't the point of the conversation my friend

just because you understand it doesn't mean you can ignore it - I guess I'm lucky enough to not have to deal with it and I'm sorry if you have been in a lot of situations with the law where plainly that's not your fault

the law is not fair and the legal system is even less fair than that but again it is what it is...and unless you have to the power to change it then dealing with it as best you can is your only choice

Quote from Daisy_Queen

Sometimes the law is about right and wrong

Sometimes the law is about rich and poor

Sometimes the law is a simple reflection of societial propreities, priorities and morals.

Its a social system in the end, and those are riddled with holes, biases and incompentence at any and all levels. Court of public opinion is the same way, granted with far greater holes.

Ofc its not wrong to have differing opinions and disagreements, I just disagreed with the other aspect.

The law just doesnt always get it right

OJ is innocent, Casey Anthony is innocent.

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but no system can get it right but for the most part - a civilized society based on evidence of law and trials and so forth is the best thing that we've come up with...

do innocent people go to jail - of course they do

do guilty people get off - of course they do

maybe we should all turn commie and utilize the chinese system - yes there's a law and trials and everything but if you cause enough of a wave to have the public disliking you - well straight to chinese gitmo!!!

Quote from ladidaladidadida

So, the law isn't fair but yet I'm still meant to defer to it? If you're American, pick up saidiya Hartman's scenes of subjection or Michelle Alexander's the new Jim crow, and maybe you'll gain some clarity. The law doesn't reflect ethics. Its foundation is built upon histories of sexism and racism. I'm not SKn, can't speak on the misogyny baked within the cultural fabric to allow seungri to be free after being convicted (he was convicted, lil boy, btw but got even lighter sentence since he had a military trial) but since this conversation is falling into one discussing deference to authority and the law, here we are.

right but again what are you or I going to do about it?

firstly I'm not american I come from down under where our legal system is somewhat fairer than yours

I understand from reading the news and shit that systematically one might say it is very unfair especially to people of colour and minorities

but in regards to the law - its the best and only version we have...unless you or I or daisy or whoever has the power to change the entire system of things I ask what are you going to do about it? in regards to the US system people with more power than you and I have been complaining about it for far longer and wield far greater power have tried...

you want to tear down the system great I will support your endeavours and look forward to it my friend

until such times as that comes to pass it's the only system that we have

Quote from Daisy_Queen

It always depends pretty heavily on what area of law.

If I punch you in the face, that's assault and I'd be found guilty no matter where I was tried

If I stole your wallet, that's theft no matter where I was tried

If I as a woman kiss another woman in public, I could end up in a jail cell depending on where I live.

If I walked into a hotel with a romantic partner but didn't consent to sex, made it clear I didn't consent but also didn't physically fight back...that's not always considered sexual assault. Where I live, I might have a chance in court. In SK or Japan, I wouldn't have a hope in hell.

Even if the evidence is there or the witnesses are there, it doesn't meet the criteria as currently defined by a deeply patriarchal society.

Laws are written and defined by elected officials who may on some level want a just system but will largely prioritize remaining in power and acting on behalf of what their voters think should and shouldn't be illegal.

It's all court of public opinion, whether it be a current one with no weight or a legitimized written but deeply outdated one. The law is not a science, it's a concept that evolves behind the people.

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not necessarily

he said / she said...that's why in western societies the standard is beyond all reasonable doubt...If one can create doubt as to whether you hit me then you might be found not guilty

if one can create doubt - whether through discrediting witnesses, shitty witnesses, etc etc then one might be found not guilty - that's why is a very high burden to meet especially in sexual assault cases

individually that might not be seen as "fair" since if you or I were the victim then we'd do and want everything in our power to get that bastard!!! but from a societal perspective that's the system that society has a whole has decided...

the greater good and all that...

the law and trials and stuff aren't meant to determine the "truth" - we probably in a lot of situations will never know what the truth is in any crime - it's to determine guilt or not guilty according to that standard set by the law

of course the people who create the law and those with the means will use the law to their advantage but again I ask how does one change that? how do you change the system to be more "fairer" when those in power obviously wouldn't want to change it lol

I vote (it's sorta compulsory down under) - I've done my civic duty but I'm a pragmatist - I don't care to change the system rather that I choose to know the system I currently live in and make the best of the sitution I have