Bora is proof vocal talent is irrelevant in kpop

Quote from Elvis12

The existence of Vocal Trinity is the proof that vocal talent has a place in pop music. You just need to be that "GREAT" so you can be noticed. Remember Mariah Carey still hold the most #1 record (Soloist) in the Hot 100 due to her outstanding vocals. Also no shade but Bora is more on average vocal skills.

and also Celine Dion, and so many others

but if you think, we can all agree The Britneys and the Rihannnas will always be more popular than the Mariahs. Not talking about charts, but plain popularity. And sometimes that is what label records wants more

Is she being genuinely hated on though or is OP just being dramatic?

vocal talent is not irrelevant just cause some people go around releasing songs when they can neither sing nor rap. Its just people have low standards. i mean they give lil nas x hits.And by this i mean there are songs that only work cause of the vocals on them.

though i have no idea who bora is

Quote from hypernova

Is she being genuinely hated on though or is OP just being dramatic?

She recently caught the attention of K-netz, in a bad way.

https://twitter.com/pannchoa/status/1674213695742935040

But seriously, wtf does MNET have against Bora? Why did you guys have to massacre her with evil edits?

You keep inviting this woman to your shows, but will never let her see success. Bora was riding high from her last performance. Was literally the only one who saw any kind of attention, and MNET said, "Nuh uh. Not on my watch!"

FNC, stop letting them torture our girl!

I don't think it's irrelevant, I think it's a more of a 'nice to have' in additional to any other talents you possesses. People would focus on visual first and then if there's great vocal accompany them, then that idol will become a hit. Unless your vocals are so good that visual comes second, which is rare.

Honestly having a decent vocal out of hundreds of idols won't make you stand out, unless you're super pretty. Then the bar for your decent vocal will suddenly be raised up and praised as 'great' to accompany your visual. If you're a C student in class with all D's and F's, sure you'll stand out.

Idols don't need great vocals, that can be leave to soloists and the professionals. Idols only need to look good, entertain the audience, and fan services. That's the selling point and marketing.

Quote from chilltime

in order of importance

visuals

age

vocals

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I would also add personality/charm.

Visuals are probably one of the most important things when it comes to being an idol, but personality/charm is almost just as important. If you don't have any personality/charm, you can end up Sullyoon, a flower without a scent. Whereas we had someone like Momoland Jooe, who stood out and became well-known to the general public because of her strong character rather than her looks.

Quote from Heavens-Eye

I would also add personality/charm.

Visuals are probably one of the most important things when it comes to being an idol, but personality/charm is almost just as important. If you don't have any personality/charm, you can end up Sullyoon, a flower without a scent. Whereas we had someone like Momoland Jooe, who stood out and became well-known to the general public because of her strong character rather than her looks.

correction : branding, no one is showing his true personnality to the public, they are showing what the company instructed them to show, fans are not entitled to know more than they should. and Jooe is not that popular, she was known to be the comedian of the group, the girl that they pity because she was not meeting the beauty standard. they gave her some attention for a while until they hopped to the new funny not so gorgeous girl.

Quote from Hopeful09

correction : branding, no one is showing his true personnality to the public, they are showing what the company instructed them to show, fans are not entitled to know more than they should. and Jooe is not that popular, she was known to be the comedian of the group, the girl that they pity because she was not meeting the beauty standard. they gave her some attention for a while until they hopped to the new funny not so gorgeous girl.

Branding does play a part, but these things aren't the same. Branding can only do so much if you don't have the actual personality to support that brand. As for Jooe, yes, she was known as the comedian of the group, but that's exactly my point. She was known. You say Jooe wasn't popular but the general public actually knew her and she had her own solo brand endorsement and cfs, something you can't say the same about Sullyoon. That is my point. JYP could give Sullyoon Jooe's "brand" tomorrow, but because she comes across as very subdued and anyone would be able to clock that she was either forcing it or uncomfortable and it would be awkward. And also, why are you pointing out that Jooe wasn't known for being gorgeous as if that wasn't literally my point? I'm saying her personality and charm are what got her to that level, not her looks.

Quote from whisk

Vocal talent is irrelevant in ANY pop music market, not just kpop. You think celebrities like britney spears or rihanna or taylor swift are so successful because they’re the most skilled singers of their generation? Lol. Were you born yesterday or what. Pinning this on kpop as if it’s a unique phenomenon only observed in this niche, when in fact kpop is just following in other markets’ footsteps in literally everything, is cute 😂

Britney actually had amazing vocals when she was younger compared to those 2 tbh.

Quote from ForgottenSoul

Britney actually had amazing vocals when she was younger compared to those 2 tbh.

i never said britney or rihanna are terrible singers. they’re just not the most vocally gifted singers of their generation. these two statements aren’t mutually exclusive

Quote from Heavens-Eye

Branding does play a part, but these things aren't the same. Branding can only do so much if you don't have the actual personality to support that brand. As for Jooe, yes, she was known as the comedian of the group, but that's exactly my point. She was known. You say Jooe wasn't popular but the general public actually knew her and she had her own solo brand endorsement and cfs, something you can't say the same about Sullyoon. That is my point. JYP could give Sullyoon Jooe's "brand" tomorrow, but because she comes across as very subdued and anyone would be able to clock that she was either forcing it or uncomfortable and it would be awkward. And also, why are you pointing out that Jooe wasn't known for being gorgeous as if that wasn't literally my point? I'm saying her personality and charm are what got her to that level, not her looks.

a lot of idols like irene for example have shown that the company pushes a certain "personality" on them. whether a certain individual could pull it off or not is completly up to them. and how are you sure that that certain behaviour observed from sullyoon's part is not her branding? a naive fairy like visual is a solid branding, and how are you sure that sullyoon is failing as an idol? jyp does not push individual promotions until years after debut, she is still pretty well-known and is even part of the visual trinity. Jooe became popular then because the idol market needed someone like her, think a little if a certain type of visuals calls for a certain type of branding then the lack of visuals calls for another type of branding, Jooe is talented and funny but there are other idols just as funny and talented but did not get the same chances.

more or less, personality will never account for anything in the idol world because we do not know these people first and we do not have the right to put labels on them second, it's literally their job.

Quote from Hopeful09

a lot of idols like irene for example have shown that the company pushes a certain "personality" on them. whether a certain individual could pull it off or not is completly up to them. and how are you sure that that certain behaviour observed from sullyoon's part is not her branding? a naive fairy like visual is a solid branding, and how are you sure that sullyoon is failing as an idol? jyp does not push individual promotions until years after debut, she is still pretty well-known and is even part of the visual trinity. Jooe became popular then because the idol market needed someone like her, think a little if a certain type of visuals calls for a certain type of branding then the lack of visuals calls for another type of branding, Jooe is talented and funny but there are other idols just as funny and talented but did not get the same chances.

more or less, personality will never account for anything in the idol world because we do not know these people first and we do not have the right to put labels on them second, it's literally their job.

I'm sorry, but I feel like you're just bringing up a lot of random argument that has nothing to do with my original talking point. Yes, all idols (celebrities in general) have images that are curated - literally, no one said otherwise. But I also feel like you are overexaggerating the extent to which this happens and are dehumanizing these idols by reducing them to mere puppets who can't think and act for themselves. I wish I could remember the idol who said it, but there was one who mentioned how their company wanted them to be the silent, cool type, but after a while, the company gave up because the idol couldn't remain consistent as was too playful. To assume that idols are nothing but "brands" without any agency of their own is to say that they aren't human.

As for the example of Irene you mentioned? Yeah, no shit. Companies try to control idols' images all the time. That's literally their job. And yet, what is her image now? Power-trip-dol? Oh, okay. But anyway, please feel free to expound on on what you meant. Be specific. In exactly what way has Irene shown that the company has pushed specific personalities, oh, and don't forget to mention the effectiveness of that push.

Now, pertaining to Sullyoon, I really don't know if I should even bother continuing talking about her because you've made it pretty obvious that you're a fan of hers, and I've somehow offended you with my words by comparing her to the "lowly" Jooe.

Just to make it clear, though, literally nowhere did I call Sullyoon a failure. I was using her as an example of a relative comparison. Another example of someone like Sullyoon is Tzuyu, and obviously, Tzuyu isn't a failure, now is she? She is literally part of one of the biggest third gen K-pop groups in the world and is very successful, but I would still call her a flower without a scent.

edit: I just saw there is a thread comparing Sullyoon and Tzuyu now lol

I actually think vocal talent is the most important. After all, if an idol doesn't have a great voice then there's not much point in them singing. That is what I go for, not a pretty face or fancy footwork.