WHAT IS WESTERNIZATION?

Quote from Ves

What? So the Melon charts, Bugs etc... ?

Sounding like US Top 40

Quote from Ves

So in the context of the "westernization" KPOP industry ... does this mean to imply that KPOP has some form of Stockholm syndrome to willingly go the West?

Yeah, they basically meaning western culture is being forced onto kpop even tho it has influence of hip hop/r&b since beginning

I want to answer this in an unbiased manner so i only read OP.

Westernization to me: the idea that western influences on culture are changing the eastern culture. This is neither good nor bad.

Westernization is natural in the way that you could say my home country, the US, is being “easternized”

I see people wearing different clothes (haram pants, kimono tops etc.), different make up trends (bb cream, k-beauty, “natural” make up etc.), even pop culture (tik tok influencers taking trends, dance trends, music video budgets, scooter braun forming groups etc.) its just people from otherwise “shielded” areas being exposed to a new culture, liking what they see and then emulating said culture.

Quote from Ves

So I see this word used a lot and it's a bit bothersome because it seems to like some catchphrase for anything negative involving the West. Almost as xenophobic as when people in the West talk about the big bad dark side of KPOP. We got Boogeymen everywhere I guess. Tell me AKP, what does this word mean to you?

Wait, westerners aren't allowed to talk about the dark side of Kpop now? Because there's definitely a dark side of Kpop, and it has nothing to do with xenophobia. There's a dark side to the entertainment industry as a whole.

Quote from bartkun

no but honestly by westernization of kpop I mean I really don't want KPOP artists to make collabs with people who got some criminal record, domestic abuse charges, drugs, theft etc.

Because as everyone knows, all westerners are criminals.

Quote from xx-jenn-xx

I Edited my response because i basically don't know how to word it but, when I SEE people using westernization it always feels like they are insulting the u.s. of course our country is not perfect but it pisses me off to see such slander all the time...

Nah, that's exactly what they mean. When Kpop fans talk about "the west," it's almost always a synonym for America specifically. Some do it because they want to say something shady about our country without invoking the wrath of American fans, while others actually seem to think the US somehow represents literally all of western civilization. What weirds me out the most is when people from other western countries do it. They'll complain about the "westernization" of Kpop when they really mean "Americanization," but you never hear a peep from these same people when Kpop suddenly borrows something from their own culture or even pays them a visit. Because apparently they're "the good westerners."

In terms of musical style, I think you actually can make the argument that Kpop has gotten even more westernized over time, as it seems to borrow less heavily from Jpop and other East Asian electropop influences than it used to, with a heavy turn towards American hip-hop influences, but in all actuality Kpop wouldn't even exist if it weren't already "westernized" to begin with, because it's literally a western genre & cultural institution adapted & repackaged for a Korean audience. The only major change from its inception is the number of overseas consumers interested in buying that package, which has led to a shakeup in how (and where) the industry chooses to deliver its product.

Oh come on, you know what it is, you just want to argue about it, don't you?

You take every BIG4 music released these two last year and look the name of the people at prod & lyrics.

And you take every music from the biggest Western artist these two last year and you also look the name of the people at prod & lyrics and you search Korean name.

kpop has been mixing and influenced by the western and especially US music industry for a few years now. The reverse, on the other hand, hardly exists.

Westernization: could not spell that word at a spelling bee. Real definition is this - When you start out humble and then become greedy for more money (1) the other definitions are - when you want to be an American pop star (2) (3) when your company forces you to care about your western audience more.

The effects of westernization is as follows (on kpop groups/idols) - suddenly tour more in america, suddenly feature on western artist music, suddenly have American friends (influences, no name people who got 45k followers on instagram, random celebs children), suddenly twerk on stage and swear more (American brainwashing influence), compnay ceo starts doing interviews in the west about business (says random words from dictionary about the beauty of kpop and American pop) mentioned on CNN, have special docs made about you and the influence of kpop (your group is the thumbnail of said video), suddenly move to bigger company building, suddenly release bad English music, suddenly preform at American award shows to win some chump award nobody cares about, make a song that is a carbon copy of a hit song in the west, suddenly take interest in acting in the west. Etc Etc.

i've noticed that a gg gets called more "westernised" when they move away from super cutesy, sugary, sundresses and prayer hands music

like to some people the pinnacle of Korean gg aesthetics is the aegyo pure look that they assume would never sell in the west

which is sort of right ig

Quote from KpopJop

i've noticed that a gg gets called more "westernised" when they move away from super cutesy, sugary, sundresses and prayer hands music

like to some people the pinnacle of Korean gg aesthetics is the aegyo pure look that they assume would never sell in the west

which is sort of right ig

Also noticed in more misogynistic kpop fandom circles that for female kpop artists, becoming "Westernised" is just a cover word for some how becoming less "pure". Being a bit more overtly sexy or dressing sexier, daring to even be seen with males, having Western friends, enjoying parties and the most awful, horrible one of all... getting a tattoo. Anything that takes away from a weird, almost fetishised perception of a cute, innocent, naive Asian girl is somehow that woman becoming "Westernised" and in those gross circles, somehow of less value.

Quote from ThePhantomThief

Also noticed in more misogynistic kpop fandom circles that for female kpop artists, becoming "Westernised" is just a cover word for some how becoming less "pure". Being a bit more overtly sexy or dressing sexier, daring to even be seen with males, having Western friends, enjoying parties and the most awful, horrible one of all... getting a tattoo. Anything that takes away from a weird, almost fetishised perception of a cute, innocent, naive Asian girl is somehow that woman becoming "Westernised" and in those gross circles, somehow of less value.

nailed it, exactly

some fans see “Westernisation” of kpop in purely sociopolitical terms, and not ever about musical/sonic trends. This view affects ggs way more

Relationship between the West (ie America) and Kpop is nuanced.

All Kpop, and all modern pop around the world are inspired and derived from 20th century American music culture, sourced from predominantly black communities. That is where all modern pop, rock, blues, soul, jazz, hip hop, rap, RnB, punk, techno, reggaeton, trap, Latin pop, house, etc comes from.

Kpop specifically is derived American boyband music of the 90s set to Korglish lyrics, produced under Jpop's trainee system, and packaged with visual stages and syncro choreo.

Because of this, it will never truly be free of its link with whatever is happening in the US. People make fun of Kpop by calling it dated since it supposedly copies US trends years after they hit in the US but to me, that's not a slight at all. I dont want Kpop to automatically reflect what is happening here, esp as i've been venting and ranting for 4 years about how bad "here" is.

Like people make fun of BP's EDM drops and call Teddy dated when his music STILL bangs today, nobody wants to see generic, stripped down 3 note instrumental noise in Kpop, that shit is terribly boring. Kpop in general still tries to hold onto a modicum of musicality and inventiveness that puts it an entire tier above most local music.

But there are far more layers to Kpop and the West. I can put up a whole treatise on certain subjects related to this relationship, rants regarding cultural appropriation and who is truly to blame for idols or labels "copying" American music and music culture including styling, but we dont want to go down that route on this thread lol.

It doesn’t mean anything. Kpop was always influenced by western music. When people say “western” they just mean the death of cute or no longer having cringe lyrics or worse when idols start proving they are not in fact raging bigots any more. Because you see racism and bigotry is a western concept never before seen in Asia

Westernization of kpop is ironically people from the west pigeon holing Asians into stereotypes that they believe Asians should stick to because it makes them exotic. Their “culture” makes them unique you see like circus acts to be stared at. While ignoring the actual plight of people trying to break away from traditional cultural habits that are rooted in patriarchy or other bigotry.

I have a lot to say on this matter but anyway. No use talking about it on AKP.