Posts by Yama-Chan

Quote from ForeverOnce2001

Wasn’t this just creating a little more mess again, maybe due to a feeling of losing, to do the same last word thing you complained about to him/her before?

They are messy too, but still.

I don’t expect a reply for sake of the thread. Just would be something to think about before you -potentially- cause this again one day.

No, because I'm open to discussing charts, just not silly personal attacks about my educational background. The only thing I've lost is time, but we're all here to waste time chatting about K-Pop anyway.

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic. It's just K-Pop and it's not that serious. I also enjoy a good debate and take nothing personal. We can leave it at that.

Moving on, I am curious if Ditto will see another surge once NJ actually, y'know, promote the song and start to do music shows.

It's kind of crazy to me that one of the biggest songs in Korean chart history hasn't had a single live stage in front of an audience. Not even at the GDAs.

Quote from babybat

don't u guys ever get tired of having this same discussion (bait) every two days

You know the answer to this question.

And why is it Mamamoo? (I'm just kidding. I have to promo my all-time favs when I can )

But seriously. Circa 2017, the answer would be Twice without hesitation, but things started to shift in 2018 and now BlackPink is the biggest girl group in the world.

Let's have a wholesome toxicity free discussion

Quote from NopeNopeNopeNope

He decided to pivot since its clear he lost lol.

Oh man, you exposed me. Guilty as charged. I was simply no match for your Ivy League educational background.

Anyways, for the integrity of the thread, I'm just cleaning up the mess I am at least partially responsible for.

If you want to talk digitals/charts, cool. If not, I won't be responding to you again.

Okay, pivot time. Let's cleanse the palette and reset this whole NewJeans conversation, because it's just going in a pointless circle, and people are taking things way too personally.

Let's get back to talking charts.

It really doesn't matter what you want to attribute their chart success to.

I think their historic debut and current stranglehold on the charts is the result of a combination of factors, not just two buckets labeled "hype" and "song quality" respectively.

But at the end of the day, regardless of the "how" or "why", no other girl group has ever done what they're doing.

If the upcoming release from Taeyang/Jimin doesn't dethrone Ditto, they might approach the second most PAK hours of all-time while holding the top 3 spots on Melon, with one song being almost a half year old.

Wow.

Quote from gerrard174

Im not sure why u get so defensive when some of us attribute a major portion of Ditto chart success to hype. It is undeniable that the song charted well initially due to hype but NO ONE is saying that Ditto has no quality. If it has no quality, it would have dropped off #1 but the fact it holds well mean it is able to resonate with listeners.

Ps: Relax bro, we are in a forum of discussion. Dont need to get triggered on opinions.

Who's getting defensive? If someone quotes me, and I respond, I guess that means I'm automatically flagged as being defensive.

You might need to read the last few pages again, if you think I'm the one triggered, and not the person in here questioning people's education and throwing childish personal attacks around and "blocking" me prior to quoting me again.

Doesn't seem like I'm the one who has an issue with actual discussion.

I have clarified my point so many times that I don't know why we're even talking about song quality. I have literally said "my opinion and your opinion on the quality of the song is irrelevant to the conversation" and people are STILL on this.

Quote from ForeverOnce2001

From a third-party perspective it did seem like you were misunderstanding the meaning and subjective-nature of quality and were arguing about that. Did seem the other users got the best of you and you went off the rails a bit .

Appreciate this comment for clearing up what you wanted to say because it makes this thread much clearer.

Not at all. I know the difference between an objective quality and a subjective quality. The derailment happened when someone thought my argument had anything to do with that in the first place.

I also clarified my stance at least six different times and at least one user kept responding with "it's subjective!!!", even after I made it clear that's not what I'm debating.

I'll be happy to admit when someone gets the best of me, if they actually respond to my argument.

Quote from gerrard174

i do agree their 1st album is so high quality, no doubt. I love all 4 songs

But again it is just 1 album. Too soon to say that they're hyped for "good quality" when there was literally just 1 album / debut. When they continue to do well, we can say that the hype has translated into perception of high quality

Why is this such a controversial discussion?

NewJeans did a Beyonce style surprise album drop with virtually no pre-hype teasers or trailers or anything. The songs then soared to the top of the charts where they have remained since debut.

People are getting way too caught up over semantics and misconstruing my original statement into a conversation about song quality, which is silly, because why would I debate something that is completely subjective and can't be definitively argued with the data presented in this thread or any data really.

My point was that Korea fell for NewJeans initially because they fell hard for their songs. They are the polar opposite of a group that debuted with a ton of hype and fanfare.

Songs fueled primarily by hype burn brightly on the charts but burn out quickly. Hype Boy was released in July. It is now almost mid-January and the song is still in the top 3.

Ditto is third only to Celebrity and Dynamite, IU and BTS, for PAK hours. A bunch of dedicated K-Pop fans alone cannot make that happen, or NCT Dream's reign on top would have been much longer. This happens when the general Korean public falls in love with a particular song, and they have fallen hard for NewJeans' music.

All joking aside, to reduce what NewJeans has accomplished on the charts to "it's mostly just hype" is really just kind of ignorant and short-sighted (this is not directed at you--speaking generally).

That's the moral of the story. There is a lot more going on here than just hype.

I'm sure the goalposts will move again if they have another massively successful string of hits on the charts.

Quote from NopeNopeNopeNope

You began responding in an emotional manner much earlier. You can pretend otherwise, but it's very visible.

Music charts measure popularity, not quality. It's honestly embarrassing how you can't comprehend that. You began making a false argument based off of something you can't even understand in the first place. If New Jeans has you this triggered, you should take your own advice.

I'm blocking you now because I'm tired of causing you to embarrass yourself.

No, you just began taking things personally. That's a you problem though. I like how you quoted me, triggered yourself and will now be blocking me over an interaction you could've avoided entirely.

Oh, and there is the final oldest low tier Internet argument trick in the playbook. Responding immediately after saying you were done responding, because "mah last word!" is so important to you.

You keep repeating the same lines like a broken record, and I keep ignoring them because they have nothing to do with any of my statements.

So basically, cool story brah.

I'm going to assume the temper tantrum is done now, and we can get back to talking about digitals.

Quote from NopeNopeNopeNope

Didn't acknowledge your point because it was nonsense like most of what you say. You go around mine since it's impossible to argue facts.

You're the one writing long replies due to how triggered you are lol. You wrote all that to say very little and show how little education you must have received. I assume you're projecting due to your own inabilities to comprehend simple points. Quality of art, by definition, is subjective. You can measure the success and popularity, and New Jeans has plenty of that, but you can't attribute it to quality.

Oh, friend, when I told you to let up on that strawman, that wasn't an invitation to immediately resort to the oldest low tier internet argument trick in the book and start relying on ad hominem.

I'm an eloquent speaker, and I enjoy writing, so yes, my posts can get on the long side. It has nothing to do with you. I guess I have my "poor education" to blame, huh?

I'm just talking K-Pop, something I also enjoy, and you're the one responding emotionally, so who's really triggered here, when you are clearly taking the fact that someone disagrees with you very personally.

Put the keyboard down. Take a deep breath. And then say out loud to yourself "I will not rage over someone not seeing Korea's music charts the same way I do." I promise you'll feel better.

And then you might actually be able to figure out what you're actually responding to.

Edit: AYO! There's the other oldest low tier internet argument trick in the book! Claim the other party is not worth your time and far too stupid to possibly comprehend your argument and then declaring you won't be responding anymore! Damn, you really making BTS proud with the way you dropped that mic.

Cool story though. Let's get back to talking K-Pop.

Quote from NopeNopeNopeNope

Imagine being this triggered by the true statement that quality is subjective.

Yes, they have all those achievements, amazing achievements, but that doesn't necessarily = quality.
By that statement, Blackpink's most recent album is the highest quality music of all Korean girl group albums of all time. I love Blackpink but it certainly wasn't the highest quality album of all time lol. Achievements don't directly correlate with high quality.

I can see you saw my point coming and decided to let it whiz right over your head, never to be comprehended.

A tragic tale.

Look, how about you calm down, put away the copium pipe and actually breathe some freaking oxygen before you come back to this thread. I promise it'll give you a whole new perspective, because you might actually be able to read AND understand what others are saying.

And when you're done giving sleeper holds to that poor strawman over there, you can come here and explain to me what my point is and why it has nothing to do with song quality.

Quote from purepalette

This thread really turned into NJ VS IVE circlejerk huh

I haven't mentioned IVE, but isn't that kind of fair? Those are the two most dominant girl groups on the charts right now, by a pretty significant margin.

I mean, I think IVE have been phenomenal too. I tell others that IVE has, to date, had the most successful rookie year of any girl group I've ever seen.

Of course, NewJeans only had their debut for me to compare to at that point, but IVE will always have that distinction in my eyes.

Eleven/Love Dive/After Like is one hell of a run. You don't have to look far to find them on the charts either.

I think we have two monster rookies.

But when these conversations were happening a couple months ago, all anyone said was "well let's see what NJ do when they have their first comeback."

Well it's here. And it's historic. Don't know why some people here (well I actually do, but I'm trying to play nice) get so salty over it.

Quote from killingtime1934

I said what I mean

It wasn't been long, it been 3 weeks

And the initial numbers of many factor are due to hype like it has been for many gg, they are not special or diffent from any other gg that has been in the same position : aespa first physical album selling 1.8m copies , gidle making a Phoenix like cmb an having the most paks for a gg after sojin scandal, I've having the fastest 100-200k likes for a song on melon etc

All those are examples that fit the same narrative

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Uh huh. I'm going to hit you with whatever helps you sleep at night.

It's really a horrible look to try so hard to downplay what NewJeans has done and is currently doing.

Your argument actually works against your ultimate point about narrative, since what NewJeans has accomplished, despite the short time they've been around, is actually what makes all of this so amazing.

Most successful, dominant debut in the history of K-Pop. That's not hyperbole. But keep finding ways to nitpick greatness

Quote from killingtime1934

But it hasn't been long

That's the whole point

I don't think you finished your thought or completed your statement, or at least that's what I'm hoping for, because if this is a rebuttal to anything I said, you will really need to clarify what it is you're responding to.

Without the context of what you actually mean, I'm going to run with your statement.

Yes, look at how long it hasn't been and at how much NewJeans has already accomplished. I'm honestly in awe of it.

So much copium in this thread because people refuse to accept the dominance of NewJeans.

To whomever this applies, you're delusional if you think their success is just hype.

Sure, you can absolutely score a PAK with hype and public interest. It's still really hard but at least that's not a freezing cold take.

But you don't score a PAK for the 3rd most hours of any song ever off hype alone. The public has to love the group and the song for it to be remotely possible.

This isn't rocket science. It's literally digital chart basics.

And if an objective measurement like chart longevity isn't good enough for you, you better pull up with something better or shut up.

My opinion and your opinion on the song quality are irrelevant. Just let the data talk.

People in here really acting like NewJeans had a competition show to decide the members or a bunch of pre-release hype up videos, and didn't drop an album out of nowhere that the public immediately recognized as bop certified

Quote from NopeNopeNopeNope

Quality is subjective, it is hard to measure. Hard to know yet.

I really like Hurt. I bought it on Itunes. The others lack quality for me personally.

We have ways to measure how much the public likes a particular song.

That's why we have threads like this.

It amazes me that you can see a song go viral, spawn countless song and dance covers, chart in the top 3 almost 6 months after its release and reach the conclusion it's mostly Hype (Boy).

That's not how hype works with the charts. Ever.

An all hype song does NOT have lasting longevity. Ever. Such songs come out the gates with very strong numbers and then quickly taper off if people aren't feeling the song.

Hype Boy did the literal exact opposite of that, and its refusal to leave even the top 3 shows how much Korea loves that song and all of the music released by NewJeans.

Stop overdosing on copium and just acknowledge and accept their achievements.

Quote from NopeNopeNopeNope

It's really hard to say what it's actually from.

Not at all. Observe.

NewJeans blew up because of their amazing song quality.

Yeah, that was easy.

Attention, Hype Boy and Cookie (special mention to Hurt) were just that good.

Addictive hooks, fun choreo--you don't debut and immediately rise and maintain like NewJeans with nothing but hype.

Quote from gerrard174

I think it is not matter of burn out but whether the song clicks. For now, im sure them doing well is due to 60% hype + 40% song quality. Not sure when the hype fades, whether their new song will still have that standard/quality to click with the GPs.

Um. They have so much hype because of their song quality. You have this a little backwards.

If they keep releasing great music, the hype won't be fading any time soon.

Quote from lahel

no.... im just replyin to whoever is quoting me. lol

i thought i was done with this thread by y'all keep bringing me back

Really...? I didn't think I was being subtle.

Quote from lahel

no. im not gonna die on the youtube search hill. that's just one of many factors that tell me this is just the fans tryin very hard to hype them up.

Oh my god, are you just looking for attention or do you want a cookie? Talking like that will not make NewJeans fans hurt. Obviously they want to give NewJeans lots of hype, boy. You can say that ditto.

This seems personal for you.

Quote from UnchangingAsOne

While it's hard to make cross-generation comparisons tbh and they're both very popular in their own generation, what I'll say is idk if 7 years from now there would be discussions after discussions made about whether or not XYZ group is as popular as NewJeans in 2023. I can still see discussions being made about 2016's Twice vs. other GGs in years to come. That's the difference, imo.

Huh? NewJeans is absolutely setting the bar higher than we've ever seen it for girl group debuts. Quite literally, it's the most successful girl group debut that K-Pop has ever seen, and it's not even close.

Twice had the honor of being used as the standard by which other girl groups were compared to in their era, and NewJeans is certainly going to be the standard for this era, regardless of whether or not it's fair for their peers (hint: it isn't).

I think what people really need to understand is that no career we've seen in the last two generations has gotten off to the incomparable start that NewJeans has--we've literally never seen anything like it in K-Pop.

Which is why my opinion is that, while it's too early to compare NewJeans to the top girl groups of generations past, if they continue at this level for the foreseeable future, NewJeans is going to be the new standard.

And I'll be frank. I trust Min Heejin and her incredible team more than I'd ever trust JYP long-term.

EDIT: It's actually never too early to compare; it's just too early to make a definitive statement. If we took the top girl groups of the 3rd/4th generation and started a race from their debut on, NewJeans is well ahead of everyone, and that's a fact.