Posts by ilikeJB

Quote from SandyBee3

Well I saw both episodes and I haven’t seen any justification for what the NSA is doing, at least from what I comprehend from the storyline. What should I do, I can just comment on what I saw, if they interpreted what they saw or heard that way than I can’t help it. I can’t say that I saw something I didn’t saw.

Yet those family of Park Jong Cheol that saw something in 1987 spoke about it. They were there, they made the comparison and gave a statement after the first episode. Are you gonna say they can't say they saw something? That was my point. A reminder, their history, not yours. Their memory, not yours.

Quote from Marmaladeheart

I'm so sad for Jisoo as a Blink. I don't get the problematic here. Fiction is fiction and the producer made no secret out of it.

When it's a problem for Koreans I'm okay when they cancel it, but that doesn't mean I understand it.

Never ever would I see this kind of drama in my country about a movie or series which is clearly labeled a fiction. Maybe these are cultural differences but I can't understand it, I'm sorry.

Quote from Zaxo

This, I was about to say this.

Fiction is fiction. More than that, for me, fiction has no limits, boundaries or frontiers. But if korean people cancel it we can't do much thing than accept it. I also can't understand, I think it's a really narrow minded mindset.

Let me explain on why its easy to understand and its not narrow minded mindset at all.

In 1987, Korean university students went for protest for democracy against an authoritarian dictator. These students, protestors was accused of being a communist and an NK infiltrator by the government who sends the NSA (National Security Agency) to basically catch these protestors and torture them. One protestor even died after being waterboarded (cloth on your face, water pour over so slowly you will lose air and when you are almost pass out, they will remove the cloth, and start the whole session again). So if you think the events in 1987 is just a past event, its not.

In SD, set in the same timeframe, same backdrop, Jung Haein's character met Jisoo after being chased by the NSA. Jisoo's character thought he's one of the student protestor, and helped him. However, it turns out he is an actual NK infiltrator. Now that is a problem. Students were tortured and one died because they were accused of being NK infiltrator, and SD is somewhat sending the message that "Yeah its true some of us are actual NK infiltrators so the NSA wasn't THAT wrong".

That was just the beginning. What truly made Koreans mad is the fact that another character who is the head of the NSA team is being stated as -the guy who is just trying to catch bad guys-, downplaying the real history that the NSA is in fact murderers and tortures innocent people. Videos of students having combat boots on their head for basically protesting dictatorship and for democracy, that is who the NSA is and they are putting an excuse that the man is "just trying to do his job".

A movie "1987" about the democracy uprising actually had a few creative differences made to support the plot without altering history. Its fiction but it doesn't try to change the message of the history. If you both think this is just Koreans whining, its not. The people tortured is still alive and even spoke their concerns of SD. The family of the departed also spoke up stating they aren't happy with the glamorising portrayals of the people who tortured and murdered their son.

So be more mindful and have empathy before you say "fiction is fiction" about Korean's history.

Quote from onwards

I mean the entire cast was stacked with big names, they all agreed likely because they wanted to make it big, this is the same writer as sky castle right? and that was huge.

Also his comments about the history are next level dumb.

I'm actually curious on what was pitched before they all signed. Also I think more than Jisoo, Jung Haein is receiving more backlash because of his comments.

Quote from huRRicane8

Those who watched these two episodes I genuinely wonder , did they already showed history differently? Are the bad guys good guys? How is it?

The actual students in 1987 was SK youth who protested for democracy and gets accused of being NK infiltrator. Jung Haein's character was introduced as a university protestor, yet turns out he's an actual NK infiltrator. Its like saying you protest for freedom but gets accused of being a Nazi. And then there is movie where the character semi based on you acts like he's protesting for freedom but is actually a Nazi.

Quote from SandyBee3

Of course victims of the incidents will speak if people are saying they used their story but less brutal.

The did speak. The family and rep of Park Jong Cheol, the student who was tortured to death, said SD's plot is justifying what NSA did to the victims, romanticizing a tragedy and distorting history. Its only 34 years ago, people who went through it are still alive.

Quote from stan12345

Yes it is - the Burning Sun also had implications way beyond kpop, up the political hierarches. Talks off boycotts of BP and other YG acts etc. Near zero impact on BP's musical relevance, their initial UL's were higher than every kpop group bar BTS with KTL that year. The Burning Sun scandal was much closer connected to YG than Snowdrop.

Fans take some netizen comments about boycotts, extrapolate it to an everyone's against them trope, and then when it does well anyhow you'll hear a bunch about overcoming the odds and the barriers put up against them.

The top trending video on youtube currently in SK is girl group show members covering Pretty Savage and Savage. A few videos down it's Jennie and Jisoo in some vlog.

It's a cycle in how kpop fans extrapolate netizens comments to victimise themselves, which they'll then use as ammo later. Even in the group I follow in Twice, you see fans do the same things. It's bizarre.

Like the Burning Sun scandal, this is beyond kpop yet all most ifans see is stuff translated about their own group so it just reinforces inaccurate takes.

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Yes fans do that. But that doesn't mean some boycotts can't run real.

The whole Burning Sun had Yang Hyunsuk, his brother and Seungri cut ties officially with YG for the company to run up again. If that didn't happen, I would say the boycott Kfans are saying would actually happen for BP in Korea. JYP artist was actually boycotted for a few months by the nation in 2013 because of the controversy where JYP's wife was the daughter of the controversial fraud businessman that took maintenance money from Sewol Ferry and in a way caused the tragedy to happen. It took him around 3 statements and one apology to get his kids back to work. So boycotts can very much be real and not just a cycle of kpop fans whining.

Outside of here, actually in Korea right now, Jung Haein is actually the one quite in hot waters more than Jisoo or Blackpink.

I think one thing I-blinks can do right now is to stop stating that Koreans shouldn't be offended. I had an hour free up on my time and I opened Safari, googled the history that happens and I can just say that one our spent on reading Korean history is enough to tell me that Koreans feeling offended with SD is very VERY valid.

Quote from stan12345

What's the relevance of this with my post saying this issue is beyond kpop? Unless that's what you're trying to say here?

It's not going to impact Blackpink as it's bigger than them.

Although I do agree it won't actually impact Blackpink, its still not just a fandom cycle, or even just another knetz boycott, that's the part I am saying. Real protest from families of victims from the tragedies in 1987, victims is speaking up, sponsors is backing out, children of the parents that were included in the 1987 protest are speaking up, journalists on news sites is reporting the controversy of the drama distorting history. It is beyond kpop for sure, but its not just a fandom cycle reaction definitely. That is what I am saying.

Quote from Gayyoongles

Can you link me the Jung Haein interview you're talking about?

Thread

[theqoo] Jung Hae In's Interview about Snowdrop on Harper Bazar

[theqoo] JUNG HAE IN'S INTERVIEW ABOUT SNOWDROP ON HARPER BAZAR

Q: This is a work with the backdrop set in 1987. Have you studied or researched this period's events in advance?



A: I'm a 88'er. So I couldn't experience the 1987 times myself. There are many works with that timeframe as a backdrop, but I think the actual answer will be in the script itself. Once I've scrutinized the script, I will be able to draw a picture of it in my head. What's more important for me is that, through this work, I…

0ppar

Dec 1st 2021

Someone updated here.

Quote

Q: This is a work with the backdrop set in 1987. Have you studied or researched this period's events in advance?

A: I'm a 88'er. So I couldn't experience the 1987 times myself. There are many works with that timeframe as a backdrop, but I think the actual answer will be in the script itself. Once I've scrutinized the script, I will be able to draw a picture of it in my head. What's more important for me is that, through this work, I was able to feel how amazing the props team and costumes team were. Acting doesn't change based on different generational plays. This generation's people are living the same way we are.

So in the end, the only differences between this period and our current times are the props and set, arts and costumes/makeup.

I mean if he actually went and simply google "Korea 1987" he would already understand the picture of the actual historical events and the picture from the script is quite.... different. Honestly he gets more backlash actually than Jisoo. The fact that he dared say "this generation's people are living the same way we are", nope, his generation was able to live that way because of the life those generation had gone through.

Quote from asongofroses

a real boycott then?? i really want to see it lol. very interesting

I dunno if you see Korean history as a joke, but I don't actually wish for a boycott. However, I wish Ifans would stop pestering Koreans to "chill" about this.

Its not a funny black comedy thing being wakeboarded to death just for a peace protest and its not a funny thing to have the family of the victim see the image of the people killing their son being glamorised in a drama. Its also not funny that the movement of students for democracy from authoritarian dictator is being lessened as actual NK spies.

Quote from Gafsa

i think you can see the dynamic here. The only Korean in BP beside Jisoo is Jennie and Jennie was the only one didn't post a story of her watching the premiere. She might as well was there with Lisa and Rose but she chose not to.

Lisa and Rose are foreigner, they can get a pass from me for not being sensitive but that's not their fault, they weren't Korea born and breed.

I have the feeling Jennie might as well knew this drama is problematic and she sensed an upcoming wave of backlash so she minimized the cross promotion for SD as much as possible.

Only that Jennie did post. A picture of Jisoo on her premiere, with the SD poster on Jisoo's back. Less impact but doesn't change the fact that she did kinda promote it.

Rose is my fave but sorry, I can't give her or Lisa a pass because they must have seen news surrounding it 8 months ago and also recently. Google (or Naver) is right there. A simple search would give them an insight. If Jessi can google about the Joseon Dynasty on Showterview to get quickly educated on her ancestors, Rose and Lisa can do the same with this.

Jisoo is the full born and bred Korean, and after Jung Haein's interview about his ignorance, I can say I can't give any of them in this drama a pass because again, a simple search would clear up the mess.

Quote from stan12345

This is such a kpop fandom cycle.

Find some netizens comments that are barely representative of the public saying they'll boycott/don't like x, y or z.

x, y and z still ends up doing well because boycotts/hate from a handful of netizens means nothing

As x, y and z has done well, the comments will be "omg, they did so well despite the boycott", acting like they were fighting against the odds

Well in reality, it never mattered. This issue is beyond kpop.

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Yeah nope, its not just a kpop issue. Actual history of the Korean democracy is distorted here and it is quite serious.

The real history is about University Students in 1987 shooting peaceful protest for democracy. The government dictator at the time called them Communist propagandist and many students ended up being tortured by National Security Agency (NSA) for being a "North Spy". One even died after being wakeboarded by the NSA. Its an actual importance movement that made SK's democracy today.

In SD, Jung Haein character was introduced as one of the students protestors being attacked by the NSA. Only surprise, he turns out to be an actual NK spy, and what Koreans are complaining that this implies that there are actual spies in the student movement and downplays the actual effort those students who were tortured. This also kind of says that "Hey the NSA isn't that wrong you know" and it doesn't help that the NSA officer in SD is set up as a nice guy trying to catch bad people.

Its all sort of questionable writing that distorts the history. Even Jisoo's character name was initially a real protestor's name.

The protestor who died, his family is speaking up against the drama. This is not the old era, this is literally 34 years ago. People who went through this point of history is still alive so if Koreans who sees this are actually offended, they have a right to be.

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

Why not also go after the male actor, the director, all cast members?

Oh people are already onto Jung Haein, the male lead. His interview about SD is not at all helping his case.

Quote from twicesuuuu

Omg why the hell yg accept this project wtf

Can't fault YG for this one. The director of SD said he forced Jisoo to talk to YG for the project. So it was actually kinda on Jisoo that she accepted it.

Quote from Flowercrew

Huh? Why attack and boycott the members?

Because the day of the premiere the girls supported Jisoo and post photos on their IG. Lisa and Rose goes even further and recorded a bit of them watching the drama.

It just seems like they are all just basically tone deaf about the bigger situation that is happening which is a serious distortion of the Korean history. Kind of like Seolhyun not recognizing the historical figure An Jung Geun. The are all very detached to the history that comes with the South Korea they live in now.

Even Jung Haein is very out of touch with history and I think he should be receiving more flack than BP and Jisoo. His comments about being born in 1988 so he doesn't know what happens in 1987 much (like history books never exists) is just... well thats some bullshit.

Quote from doesitneedsaying

You can't compare first episodes with final episodes.

First episode of twotm had 6 something rating but word of mouth and general hype lead it to be the highest rated drama in korean cable history.

Sky caste started with less that 2% rating and the finale was watched by almost 24%.

Having said that; The world of the married and sky castle are exceptions, not the rule. Snowdrop ratings are fine for cable.

Isn't that what I said though??? Not bad but not amazing. If they wanna reach amazing well, they need to at least peak at 7% in JTBC. If not, its just not bad. And those in the list weren't final episode ratings, those are peak ratings.

Quote from Haolat

This is the top 10 highest-rated JTBC dramas. JTBC is cable tv so they don't have many dramas with double digits ratings

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almost 4% is not bad at all for cable but compared to this... well the numbers is not amazing.

No. My wallpaper is every new iphone OS wallpaper. I'm that lazy.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

Next time, I will say "from what I have seen, my perception of Korean culture is", and then from there, people can feel free to correct me or disagree with me. Nothing wrong with a difference in views and discussion.

Also stop sourcing only from NB. If the only source is from NB, one can't help but form negative perceptions since NB filters all the good comments from their site.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

I don't care if you disagree. I said anger because you went back and quoted several of my posts and used caps for emphasis, that came off a little aggressive.

And, I think it's wrong to assume that I have prejudice. I mentioned several times that I don't care if someone does not do it the traditional way in other comments. My own family is very non-traditional. Only reason I even mentioned doing it the traditional way is because I felt bad for how the public may perceive their spouses based on comments I have seen, and not because I think these guys are bad (that I did not mention).

And, I did not include Pannchoa because I only get notifications on Netizen Buzz on Twitter. If you want to include Pannchoa, please feel free. I also used Netizen Buzz too because I saw comments were you or someone else were saying you had no idea where I got my opinion from or where I saw these negative reactions as if I was just using Korean culture as a shield to hate, so I was like, it's not like I just made this up because I had some secret agenda.

I am more than willing to admit if I don't know something, and when you made your original post, I reconsidered my original stance (as one does when new information is presented). But then, I saw the following comments acting as if I was using Korean society to attack these guys, which is where my problem arises. Like I stated, I don't mind you disagreeing or having a different opinion. That's what a forum is for. I just took issue with the narrative I was using "Korean" culture to shield my own negative opinion.

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Its written words in a forum and I assure you the aggression is your own feeling. Because I actually feel monotonous right now.

Ok I take that as my own assumption. I retract the statement that you have prejudice. Yeah sorry I assumed that. Don't get angry. Take a breather.

Next time though, instead of willing to admit to not know something, just don't even try to start the opinion that generalize the whole culture before firming up a proper knowledge about those things. NB is not a proper source, they intended buzz and they only translate bad comments from the Knetz. So your opinion made out of reading NB will also be very skewed.

Quote from Millano

Yeah - each to their own.

But SK and declining birthrate and declining number of marriages.

Not a good look

Right? Traditional family or premarital pregnancy, the bigger concern is the declining birthrate. However or whenever the pregnancy happens, the problem in SK is actually it's not happening enough.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

I didn't pull my opinion out of my butt hole. If you look at the article I just posted, people are mostly saying what I mentioned in my OP.

They are just a fraction of the Korean population. I saw comments like those and made an opinion. Then, I saw your comments and saw there was maybe more to the story. But, it's not like I just made up my thoughts based off of some prejudice against these idols or the lifestyles.

You're very angry, but I'm not even talking down to Junho, Chen, or Bobby. Just take a breather. The world is not going to end because I said what I said or even if I continue to think that way. You have made your point, and I have taken your point into consideration.

I just did not like the narrative you and that other user were building that I somehow hid my own prejudice against these idols behind "Korean" culture.

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You you only came with "Its Korean society" in replies and brought out your source of perspective later on. You specifically said "why can't these guys just do it the traditional way" as an opener to the thread. So if some people here including me think you have prejudice, is it our fault?

You sourced on NB which is known to only translate the negative posts. Why not also include Pannchoa who actually has included more positive translations?

This is me disagreeing with your opinion so if you wanna call that anger, suits you.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

I only based my opinion on the reactions I've seen, but I'm not Korean so it's not my place to speak on their society. I got an impression from comments I read, and if you say it's different, I can't prove you wrong or right since I don't know it well enough. I try not to speak things if I don't know, so from there, I won't speak on it.

Plus, I'm not a 2PM, EXO, or iKON fan, so my stake/interest in this is not that high.

I just find it weird this happened 3 times in the last 2 years.

The reaction I have seen on K forums is actually quite normal on Chen, Bobby and Chansung. Because in SK to marry due to a child coming into the family is a blessed wedding. The ones who reacted negatively is actually the really obsessed fans who wouldn't like their oppas to even date anyone.

"Shotgun weddings" happens a lot before too, not just this 2 years. Jang Dong Gun - Ko So Young. Kim Seung Woo - Kim Namjoo. In 2013 there is a study in SK that one of the main reason people in general get married is due to premarital pregnancy that influences the union. So I actually don't know why you had the impression that this is weird. Its new in the Kpop world but its not new in general Korean society and its definitely not frowned upon.

Example of how it is in Korea: Seo Inguk was in Mamma Mia with his mom, and they were open about his mother getting pregnant with him before wedding, even the audience wasn't showing any interest in this part of the story. Yet his mother then dropped a bomb that they registered the marriage after his birth, insinuating that he was actually born out of wedlock, and that is when the audience and the host got wild and started asking more questions. This shows that the country doesn't frown on premarital pregnancy if the baby is born into married parents, but they frown if the child is born out of wedlock.

Since you say that you can't speak for Koreans, then don't speak for them. And the source from Netizen Buzz you built your perspective off is filled with K-akgaes who slanders on even when Taecyeon announced his very normal relationship. NB is not the whole Korea so it doesn't justify you saying THESE things.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

They can do what they want, but until society changes, they are going to get negative feedback.

But like I mentioned, Chen's still dealing with the blow back. It's more about protecting themselves and their families, so it seems a little irresponsible.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

Where have I heard this story before? Like, why can't these guys just do it the traditional way lmao? It's like, yeah, we've been together for 5 years. But, let's wait on marriage, oops, you're pregnant, nvm, lmao.

Quote from keyboardwarrior7

But, that thinking doesn't work in a society like Korea. Like, if you know that you will get married if you decide to keep the baby, why not either practice safe sex or get engaged? In Korean society, it just looks bad on the couple when they do it this way.

Quote from Millano

In my neck of the woods you can be just as responsible parent without marriage.

It’s better for men to get married though as they have a better chance to see the kid should the parents break up.

Surely enough, non married parents can be responsible too, of course. But in system, each country varies. In some countries marriage is not needed for the kid to have their father's name and documented relation, thus why the culture of "shotgun wedding" doesn't happen that much. In many parts of Asia though, the father is not allowed to claim the child if there is no marital relationship to the mother during child birth, which is why pregnancy is common marriage motivation in many parts of Asia.

Specifically in SK and Japan, they believe marriage for a child is also a blessed marriage and is a good thing. The thing that is frowned upon in both countries is birthing a child out of wedlock, thus why a couple shoots for marriage in SK when the lady gets pregnant, so that the child is not born out of wedlock.