Posts by ilikeJB

Quote from bbb988

It seems like ratings for Snowdrop are dropping, so people don’t care much about the controversy to watch it anymore? So hopefully the drama can wrap itself up peacefully and Jisoo will be fine.

Yeah... nope. That's not a good thing. If the ratings drops more and more, they will likely cancel it due to bad ratings, just like one of Jung Haein's previous drama. They might even cancel it earlier to 6-7 episodes due to sponsors already cutting off ties. Ratings is actually the only thing that could save the drama now and the controversy actually helped their ratings, even if technically its bad press, its still a press.

Maybe this is how the writer is stating "Yeah those people are marching out there for democracy but I'm more interested in this love line going on" when she's in the university. Thus why the backdrop of student protest was used because it is only a backdrop to her.

Lord what is more annoying is not the drama itself, not even the people watching but the people defending on why they watch it. It shows how many international viewers are seeing Korean history, just like the writer did, as a backdrop.

Quote from Pinky_Peachy

milk before cereal is the only way it makes sense and it's the hill I'll die on

ESPECIALLY IF IT'S COLD MILK

I ONLY LIKE COLD MILK IN MY CEREAL

If baristas said put the coffee and milk (liquid) first before you put ice (solid), then certainly its milk first (liquid) before cereal (solid).

Quote from neigl

the victims spoke up. there were critics that said the nk army was shown in a to positive light. the same with the nk goverment. but for whatever reasons the netizens only made a hatetrain from snowdrob.

the vicims arent forced to watch that movie or care about it at all since its not about them. they were seens once or twice in the backround were they were demonstrating and fighting the goverment forces. the rest of the movie was about a the FL a studend who is not part of the democratic movement fall in love with a nk spy. and the spy is chased by an nsa. this also has nothing to do with the movement because its not the nsa department that fights against the movement and the nk spy istn part of the movement either. episode 2 and the rest of the movie allready play when the movement have won and they gained their civil rights and other main demands. also most victims like the victims from the gwanju massaker happent 7 years earlier. they arent part of the movie at all.

Lol now you are narrating "ItS a hAtEtRaiN" while managing to note that the victims spoke up means nothing and -they should just not watch it-.

Just say your own entertainment is more important than "some Korean history".

Quote from neigl

this pitty is not that serious. i know they wont get killed or exiled. but nobody likes to work hard intending to make some people happy and than the people shit on your work.

i really like cloy. but its totally fantasy and you should know it. the couple would never got to neutral swiss because in reality the nk geverment would just have killed hyun bin for working together with the enemy. it doesnt matter if its partially true. showing the nk army that friendly is still dangerous and offensive. think about the victims of the bombardment or the battle of yeongpyeong 2010. the army that is in state of war with sk and killed there relatives is shown as heroes and good people. Also if the war goes hot again, making the sk population having to much symathy for nk soldiers would undermine their ability to defend against them. cloy is a serious thread to the security of the korean repulic and all of its population.

Watch the drama. In snowdrop there is NO NK spy in the democracy protest. there is not one scene the ML participates in the protests. its the total oposite. the whole movie explain very well why the NSP have no right to those murders.

I did watch the Snowdrop drama and I definitely don't see it like you didn't BUT the victims speak up and said they did see the downplay on the NSP, and those are people that actually went through those murders in history. So who am I and who are you as the people who not only haven't gone through the said tragedy, but isn't Korean at all say "Oh I don't see the problem so should be okay". Is it only your entertainment that matters more than other people's suffering?

Quote from ljhei

It’s really hard to explain things to people who have already made up their minds and keeps on feeding us with this propaganda bs like if it’s propaganda for you then go ahead but also stop trying to influence us to have empathy when some of us don’t actually feed into this propaganda bs.

And fyi Propaganda films are still being shown today and there are even a lot of Hollywood films with subtle and blatant political messages but the masses and even historians are still watching it to understand and learn something from its nature from the past. Failure to do so leaves us ignorant and less able to deal with current issues of extremist propaganda. This is precisely why it’s also vital for things not to be always cancelled and censored especially as we are now living in a DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY. Moreover, we now have the tools and advancements to combat propaganda, they might not play the biggest role but they still play an important one.

Again don’t liken us to being stupid and easily brainwashed, please we know how to distinguish things and not believe that just because of 1 series then everything there is the truth.

Do you really think young people today who watch 1 fictional series will immediately think everything there is true and wouldn’t even talk to their peers about it nor research about it? Seriously like what century do you think these young ones live in? especially with all the technological advancements we currently have they can even speed up their research by googling things.

Like how could anyone feed into their bs that an entire country can change their regime based on 1 freaking FICTIONAL SHOW in 2021.

This series is not even intended to revise any history nor is Korean history going to suddenly change because of a FICTIONAL drama. We actually know how to distinguish between fiction and reality.

This is not even about Snowdrop anymore it’s about some of them calling for CENSORSHIP and cancellation on things that they find offensive and will continue to even bully and harass people who are involved be it movies, series, celebrities- they are just proving to everyone that they are now going against the exact principles of democracy which their ancestors fought hard for. Seriously now they are even trying to petition to cancel and silence a Company just because of Snowdrop?! Wow they sure like to criticize and condemn the Chinese and North Koreans censorship. Like Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Censorship is the enemy of democracy because it will make people more ignorant and unable to deal with certain issues. Again it might be uncomfortable for some and these people may read propaganda into this series but people like us still see it as pretty harmless entertainment and a free society still needs to understand that.

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So you agree then, your entertainment is more important than actual suffering from Koreans. Okay. Like you don't even care that the people who supports Snowdrop in Korea are right wingers who are already using the drama to tell the young peers that the NSA is right for killing those students? That authoritarian system is the right way to go in SK, you don't care right as long as you get your drama. You babble about democracy in censorship but you didn't even see the whole ordeal that is going on because for you, only your drama and entertainment is important. The Korean lives, not that important. I get it. Don't worry, I can't force empathy on a person who is not even humane.

JYP can't promote shit. That's the problem.

Quote from ljhei

Like what I said not everyone is going to believe that there is propaganda in this freaking series and it just gets really frustrating that we are just here to watch and enjoy the drama then here comes these ideological gangsters that will lecture us about their history like did we ask for them to talk about their history in the first place? And then will get really offended and call us names when we disagree with them.

They are acting like they are suddenly historical experts when for sure most of them are just joining the hate bandwagon since when you ask them about the questionable parts that they keep on talking about, they keep giving examples and explanations that have nothing to do with what i’ve seen so far from the drama lol How can I turn a blind eye when i can see that a lot of them are still being swayed by instinct and emotion rather than logic and reason.

So how can we not defend and speak up about Snowdrop and the casts? It’s also a good thing that the cast have someone who is Internationally famous and known so it will be harder for them to shut down and censor this project knowing that the International community would rally behind them and would also help analyze and get the other side to every story. It also helps that we understand that this is FICTION in the first place.

Kudos to Jisoo, since she is also the one getting the brunt of the work, for also not giving way to these naysayers and even called her an airhead that even if this is considered a controversial series she never backed out because she is pretty savage! She also probably understood that this is a fictional drama and is not intended to change their history as claimed by others. Remember, a lot of famed and well-known materials continue to be loved, read and seen by millions despite the heated controversies surrounding them.

Also, some people will tell us that that we should sympathize with them and would tell us to butt out of their issues since it’s their history when in fact they are also the ones who keep on commenting on our wholesome posts in the first place. Plus the series is being shown also INTERNATIONALLY not just locally so it’s also our right to critique them especially when we keep on seeing a lot of loopholes and those who preach that there is 'only one right way' need to be constantly challenged. It is also our right to comment and call them out on their TOXIC CANCEL CULTURE especially when it keeps on happening.

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So you agree, its only for your entertainment, for your enjoyment, so you don't care about actual victims right? Or even care about Koreans history right? Because its your entertainment, nobody else matters right? Ok.

Quote from neigl

im not really concerned, i dont care that much actually. jisoo or even hain will still have a fine live with all their money even if this would have been the last entertainment they would do.

Its sad that the staff and actors worked hard to give us entertainment... but i mean not this kind of entertainment... and than we complain why companies are so carefully and dont let their artists do anything anymore.

i guess i just get angry at unproven hatetrains since t-ara gets ruined and this hometown chachacha guy recently remined me on that again.

more then enough but as example take cloy. Getting democracy is like 30 years ago. but the division is still ongoing. it is also very serious situation since both countries are still at war. main lead and his friends are shown like super hereos while we have reports from refugees who descriped nk soldiers as very hostile even to the own population, mainly due to the hard circumstances they live under. this is very offensive tokoreans who have lost family members or suffered under the nk army. also showing the army who is the main thread to the country in such a positive light could make it harder for their own soldiers to fight against them in case that is needed. The movie could have brough massive danger to the safety of the country. its also very dissorting history. i mean come on. hyung bin should be a soldier in the nk army? are you for real?

No one even blame the staff or actors (well they blame Jung Haein but that is totally on him) so what is this "pity them" narrative of yours??? The director and the writer with the production is the one being on the hot seat. If the drama gets cancelled, the staff will still get their pay.

You really don't have an understanding of creative changes can send certain messages.

CLOY took into account that they wanna show the real lives of the villages of North Korea, that the country is not just the regime. Many NK refugees that ran away from NK to SK state CLOY showed something of greater value, that NK is still Korea, and the people is not that different. They also showed that teenage boys are put into military without consent, that's the harsh reality SK people didn't know, and that they don't even ask for viewers to decide if its right or wrong, they just ask viewers to have some empathy to those NK people tighten under the regime. People forget the first victim of the NK regime is the NK citizens.

Does the message of the drama change the history about the regime? No, the regime is still bad, the couple had to go to a neutral country Swiss to actually be together and they didn't even hide the probability of the soldiers getting killed upon return in NK. They didn't get killed but is it because the regime is kind? No, its because they strategise everything to be kept under wraps from the upper regime to find out. There is no distortion of history, the regime is still bad, and NK SK is still at war. Nothing changed. That was the point.

While...

History: The authoritarian government through the NSP excused murders of the SK students in 1987 because according to them there is alleged NK spies in the democracy movement when there is none.

Snowdrop: Yeah In 1987 THERE IS NK soldier in the democracy protest so this saying that the NSP is kind of right to those murders.

This simple change made in SD had distorted the history.

If you don't understand why one change is okay and one is not, simply go to the last part of "What kind of message these changes give?" If you don't understand this then just don't even ask why some people are offended.

Quote from neigl

korea have no problems making movies who dissort their history on a much bigger scale, in much more serious circumstances and even more recent times... if there is no jisoo in it. And they are highly praised in korea and nobody cares, even if the victims addressed the dissorting. So why should i take you serious?

In Korea actually people are stating more about Jung Haein being in it rather than Jisoo.

In fact the only time Jisoo and Blackpink was ever mentioned is when the 3 girls posted support and most of the Knetz comments is “why is YG not handling this?” Most Knetz don’t actually blame Jisoo for the drama, if anything they want Jisoo out of the mess. The boycott BP thing was like a small section of the internet that AKP users blow it up.

Jung Haein on the other hand… he’s in a much deeper shit. One interview of him stating that he doesn’t even know much about the 1987 tragedy because he’s born in 1988 basically kinda make him the face of Snowdrop mess along with Jtbc. The sponsors that pull out, one if it had him as an ambassador so all in all, its actually the male lead that is getting all the flack in Korea.

Jisoo will be fine if that is what you concerned most.

And Korea’s history: You are saying more korean movies distort history on current times, which one? I mean Inglorious Basterds add a whole lot of fiction to the Nazi timeline but it doesn’t change the Nazi as “Kind and trying to catch bad guys”, which the drama is doing with the NSP agent. So yeah, context and understanding with a little empathy is key here.

Quote from ljhei

Just my opinion and experience seriously some of us are just here to enjoy this FICTIONAL drama but some netizens would suddenly lecture us and are coming at us and calling us ignorant because of what they deemed as distortion, glorification etc. they also accuse the series and us viewers, that are actions are not democratic or we are not sympathizing with them because we still want the drama to air even if it is deemed offensive for some.

Like is it so hard to understand that just because it is offensive for someone like them then it should be automatically censored is that what they’re saying? when in fact it is NOT offensive for some people. Duh censorship is exactly an enemy of democracy, freedom of speech applies to all kinds even to things that may be deeply offensive or uncomfortable for some.

Even if they keep accusing them of distortion, glorification etc. They are not shutting it down since a lot of people are also rallying and supporting it. Even some professional korean lawyers, professors and directors are now speaking up about why it shouldn’t be cancelled.

We are not dumb not to know the difference between fiction and reality. This series is not even intended to revise any history nor is Korean history going to suddenly change because of a FICTIONAL drama.

Are people so naive to believe that they will make a series to celebrate and romanticize innocent people that got killed in the past? And again some people are calling for it to be shut down when it was not airing and they haven’t seen any episodes at all?! And now what they are still trying to shut it down even resorting to bullying and harassment when there are only 2 episodes that aired plus nowhere are we seeing things that they keep accusing them of on any episodes at all. JTBC and Snowdrop team are that confident to still release things plus even show snippets of explanations that are deemed controversial, because they will not allow some people to prevent them from standing up to their rights. It may be uncomfortable for some but it still needs to be defended even when it gives offense. That is democracy! So kudos to JTBC for still sticking up to their guns!

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Its brimming into politics right now for Koreans but to you its only entertainment right? For the victims, they speak up that the drama is downplaying the NSP’s violence, the fact that one NSP agent was stated as “kind and just trying to catch bad guys”, the victims are offended by that and these are the actual people who went through hell with the NSP in the 80’s, so are you saying your entertainment is much more important than their suffering? As much as people should respect your need for entertainment, you should give them the same respect for feeling offense of the material due to political sensitivity. Be human.

Quote from stan12345

How does this make sense and when did something making people feel offended need to be proven in court?

There was nothing legally wrong with Joseon Exorcist. Holocaust denial isn't illegal in most countries in the world but you can bet that if a film was made minimising/denying what had happened in a country it's not illegal, it'd still be a massive issue in most countries.

The writers have parroted that it's fiction but have set it in a specific time period with too many parallels, even having to change the name of the female lead.

You can never legally disprove there weren't people that were "sympathetic" in the intelligence agency. You can never legally and categorically disprove there were no North Koreans present in the period, even as spies. That doesn't change the fact that the commonly held belief in the country (I believe there are some reports around it as well) is that there were no North Koreans involved and that it was purely a ruse to limit freedoms and crackdown on protestors, whereas it's the far right groups that peddle a conspiracy theory around NK being a driving force behind the democratic movement.

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I think they are just going to legal court to make enough noise from the public and have Jtbc shut the drama down due to the court of public opinion. The history is not what they are stating to be the problem, it is what this drama could render in the future that makes up their case, which could be anything up in the air right now. Just like Joseon Exorcist, its not proof they wanna present, they need reactions of the public, enough noise and backlash to shut the drama down.

I actually think Jung Haein got the bigger backlash. Like we may only see what is happening to Jisoo but Jung Haein is the name that is being spoken in the Korean media.

The criticism of BP and Jisoo is just a small ripple compared to Jung Haein's criticism. That interview with HB mag had put him in hot water.

Now thing is, when the backlash stops after this, Koreans would just resort to you know, not watching it. The real answer should be on the ratings next week. If ratings went down then well, that just shows the controversy is what makes Korean people tune in.

Quote from ForgottenSoul

These are the peaks..

Yeap. And if SD doesn't peak more that 7%, still a good ratings, just not amazing.

Quote from SandyBee3

I don’t get your problem … just because I say I don’t think they are glorifying or downplaying as much as people say, doesn’t mean I belittle those who went through trauma and see it differently than me, they are entitled to their opinion. Two things can be true at once.

When I said I’ve seen worse I didn’t mean I have seen worse cases than that of this men, but that I have seen worse cases of bad depiction of historical events in movies.

Also comparing how someone who was traumatized views a specific situation to someone who isn’t makes no sense at all. It makes no sense using this men to argue with me over how I comprehend a certain situation.

You never experience any of the tragedy they went through yet you have an opinion on the depiction of their trauma. And your opinion is that "You don't see it", that is belittling.

You do realize that saying "I have seen worse depiction" does not cancel out that it's still a bad depiction. You must have realized reading through this thread that political parties are using this depiction for their own agenda and propaganda. Its not just the past, its also rendering the future.

I'm just saying, have some empathy. You don't understand it, fine. No need to go along the route of explaining why you don't understand it. Because that is again belittling those who went through it. HAVE EMPATHY.

Quote from SandyBee3

But my views about the Drama itself remains, I don’t feel like the bad guys are glorified, maybe it’s because I have seen worse Idk.

Sigh. You told me before you would not belittle them. Saying you don’t think the bad guys are glorified because you have seen worse belittles the people who went through the trauma.

Its like telling a rape victim “Oh I’ve heard worse cases than your’s so I don’t think your case is as important as their’s”.

You don’t see it glorify the bad guys, but the victims are saying the drama is downplaying how bad the bad guys are. Its not about glorifying, its about downplaying that what the NSA did. You said before you didn’t see anything, that is the problem, you didn’t see anything. The drama shows the NSA breaking into the women’s dorm and was rebuffed, reality was an activist was actually captured in a sauna by an NSA agent, was tortured and ended up with parkinsons for the rest of her life.

Quote from whats-your-game

More and more company are saying they have no idea but continue to sponsor them even though ''they contacted them but was assure there weren't be any issue'' ... lol seriously..

This just shows that there is a generation in South Korea that simply is ignorant themselves on their own history and how the current generation attachment to profit is quite scary. They did not back down because its distorting history, they backed down because of the backlash. Knetz can blame SD all they want but in my opinion, this has also shines light to the actual weak relation SK have with their history.

Quote from SandyBee3

Like I said if this is how they interpreted these scenes than I can’t help it.

If you went through a trauma, seeing something similar to it will remind you of what caused that Trauma, you will automatically draw comparisons. If someone was the victim of rape or any other traumatic event, seeing something like this being depicted or not properly depicted in a movie/Drama will give them flashbacks or will upset them, they won’t like and will complain. This is a natural reaction so I won’t belittle it.

I'll hold on to the last part.

Quote from Marmaladeheart

thanks for explaining it so nicely. I understand it better now (thanks to you) but I still think they overreact a little bit. I'm very sorry. I can't imagine myself or my friends, neighbors, family or whoever reacting this way when we see a movie labeled as fiction. But I think these a cultural differences and some countries are more sensitive than others. And I don't mean the word 'sensitive' as something negative. Sometimes I wish my country would care more about certain points too.

Again I think their reaction is a little bit too much but I can accept it now (I don't have to agree or like it) and when this is South Koreas choice then they should take it down. I just don't want hate for Jisoo or anyone else. I'm sure nobody had bad intentions.

You cant imagine yet its not your memory or history, its the Korean's. So who are we non Koreans to say they overreacted.

You can't say the people who actually went through the torture overreacted. The family of the deceased student, Park Jong Cheol actually gave a statement after the first episode clearly upset of how the drama is handling the NSA's portrayal, as if those who lead to their son's death are humanised. I don't think much too before but when people who actually went through the tragedy actually speak up, who am I to dictate that they "feel too much".