Posts by Disevidence

I mean a UL chart would be great, but I have a suspicion there are business decisions why they don't do that.

Digital chart overall often does match to what was the most popular song that week,

ie -

but it can also be wildly, wildy distorted, for example this -

So yeah, anyone solely using Circle Digital Chart is an outright fool.

Quote from butterbutterfly

i liked it but i don't really listen to it anymore. it's kinda forgettable.

This is the right comment.

Forgettable is a perfect way to describe We Fresh. Not bad, not great just... there.

At the moment We Fresh has 2.3 Million listens on Spotify.... that's.... well that's a debacle.

Wa Da DA has been out for 311 days for an average of 400k listens per day (120 Million).

We Fresh has been out for 28 days with an average of 84k listens per day (2.3 Million)

There are b-sides released later by Girl Groups that have more listens.

Quote from Hot-potatao

Isn’t the Gaon streaming chart basically the representation of the sum of ULs on all charts? I think it’s more relevant to what people actually listen to compared to the digital chart.

No, it has a heavy weighting towards downloads, and is also not entirely representative, missing 25% of the market share.

Yes, Melon is only 30-35% of the market share. But the thing about Melon is it's kind of the defacto streaming site. It doesn't necessarily cater to certain demographics or subsections like some of the other streaming platforms, and thus generally, is an acceptable shorthand to understand what Korea is listening to. A representative sample across their society, essentially.

Gaon has 2 major flaws - it still doesn't count the teen and 20's focused market from Youtube Music, and it weighs downloads are far higher then point then streaming.

This leads to distortions particularly favouring fandom based groups, such as Boy Groups and LYW. But it's not necessarily just them - if people can recall the issue earlier this year where Fromis 9 had more Gaon points then Nayeon, despite charting far below them, due to downloads and download exploitation.

Gaon is a perfectly fine chart. But just have to keep it's own limitations in mind.

Quote from bbgc

He got 2 #1s this year, one OST and on Album, that too while Still Life was dominating.

I mean let's be clear, we're talking about #1 on the charts in a more general sense.

He snipes 1s on melon and genie perhaps early on during zombie hours. But he's not getting #1 daily on Melon.

As for Gaon, acts like Kang Daniel can get #1 on their week of release too, but we don't talk about them being #1 artists in the same manner.

LYW causes havoc on the charts, but he's rarely going to get above 300k UL and challenge for #1.

He'll just stop people getting things like the Melon Popularity Award, and almost certainly this song will be one of the contenders for SOTY next year by digitals alone etc, as it'll get to about 10-15 and simply sit there for the next year accumulating.

Quote from thebadguy

Lol didn't police investigation results also came against itzy lia? i doubt kakao manipulate that too

Kind of amazing this passed under the radar - two cases both basically had the same outcome, where the police said they couldn't prosecute or any further legal action as there was no standing for false statements or slander, one was Lia from Itzy, allowed to continue on. The other was Soojin from Idle, who couldn't.

Quote from Bpsosoro

I thought this was digital thread not bop vs blop thread

I mean you are right, but making a bop/blop thread on the main forum for a singer of songs like Younha is pointless.

At least people in this thread actually know Younha exists.

She's also done amazingly well - great job to her. I'll be personally sad to see Nxde lose it's #1, but oh well good things don't last forever. They had a great comeback, and Idle will be proud of the year they've had.

Quote from xx-jenn-xx

i hear great things about iu never any scandals and i dont stan either though i like one g-idle song. However, soyeon did use illegal software and plagiarize ateez - wave and thought by putting credits shed be fine the problem is NOT resolved nor did kq, edenary, or hongjoong agree to this.

Soyeon used illegal software. She owned up and apologised. She's not the first but she got caught, so fair cop.

The wave situation is far more complex. You aren't KQ or Edenary.

I will say this however - she didn't directly plagiarize Wave. The two notes in the 2nd bar are different, however they are very similar. What occured was the trip up that happens to all songwriters (exactly like IU, in fact) - they compose something they think is original, only to find they've remembered some long forgotten melody or tune they've listened to. They missed the checks - and she apologised.

Poptime (also a composer on Sun) and Edenary people are colleagues - Edenary are associated (but not directly under) with Prismfilter, the collective run by Bumzu with Poptime as Head Producer (I know this is all news to you). Poptime was the composer along with Soy for Sun, and the understanding is conversations happened at the producer level, and things were resolved, hence the credits did not apply on Komca (and they were delayed due to those conversations, it appeared on Komca far after the usual period for songs to appear).

And yes, you are a coward. You've no idea what occured, but you'd thought you'd drop a bit of slander and then go "it's just a joke bro". Truly the mark of cowardice. Schrodinger's troll - wait to see if people like it, and if they don't, it's "just a joke".

Quote from bbgc

Plagiarism needs to stick.. mere allegations won't do..

The only time she has apologized was for the Producers 23 sampling Spears.. And that was not even her direct responsibilty.

Otherwise even no-IU fan like Kpopalypse ended up defending her against such mud slinging..

But I guess these things never go away.. there is always hope the mud will stick the next time.

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I wasn't the one who brought up plagiarism allegations.

Both Soyeon and IU apologized for indirect actions - Soyeon apologized because it was inadvertently similar and it was best to draw a line under it, and IU apologized because she's also the EP of the stuff she puts out, and it gets her tick of approval, even if she wasn't the one to directly do it (similar to Suga's Jonestown thing, for example).

If we're looking at mud throwing, look at the coward who then tried to retreat and say "it was only a joke".

Quote from xx-jenn-xx

IU doesn't plagiarize

Goes to show what you know.

Quote from jinaland

the way kpop stans discrediting Ive's achievement because of this recent kakao issue

i dont even know what's the correlation here. Kakao should be held responsible the disgusting thing they had done but at this point kpop stans just using this to tear down successful girlgroup, its sad

Because I want to see real non big conglomerate groups and soloists succeed.

Give us more of Younha, give us more of Purple Kiss, give us more of H1-Key, hell give me more of Class:y and Pink Fantasy and GWSN. Hell give me Tan, give me Omega X, give me DKB.

At least he medium sized labels that are still independent have to stand on their own 2 legs - RBW trying to compete, Cube and Fantagio don't have massive label or media backing.

It's hard when the conglomerates can fix the media landscape, whether it's Big 4, or CJ, or Kakao and their subsidiaries. Hard for that when you guys keep covering for conglomerate backed groups. Just because their not big 4 you think IVE was small, struggling group - the narrative's been blown wide open by the recent revelations and this is people struggling to cope in realtime.

Stop covering for ALL the big conglomerates, where they are massive labels or subsidiaries of major media companies.

Nothing in your brain but defending your faves and not seeing how stuff like Kakao is the death of any real creativity in motion.

Quote from wizone4life

It isn't inorganic if the agency promote and hype up their group through media or positive article. It is disgusting on what Kakao do to other groups, but them using mediaplay hyping ive alone isn't inorganic.

It is in the way Kakao did it.

I have a product I want to sell. Now, I can put an advertisement online or in the paper - not a problem. But if I buy the paper without anyone knowing (or disclosing it), and use the articles inside to surreptitiously promote my product- unethical and underhanded. That's what Kakao did, and they had one group overwhelmingly in mind with the shady play - IVE.

Quote from wizone4life

If you say they rigged their number, fake digital number/physical sales then prove it.

Whose saying they rigged their number? The evidence is that IVE were promoted underhandedly and heavily by what presented itself as an independent third party page. The outcome, as someone mentioned above, will be impossible to untangle from IVE's success this year.

The Sunday drop has closed the gap. Depends on what Monday morning brings, but she may have Melon Daily and consistent number 1's by today or tomorrow even.

What's surprising is she's 3rd on Youtube this week. Hell, if it continues to go up she may actually get youtube, she was only a few 100k off Antifragile on youtube this week, and be in range of PAKs if the stars align.

Quote from SMsKKSilence

so a small facebook page with less than 80k followers is the cause of IVE success because it does what? Publish articles? I didn't realize that IVE is the only group that has articles published about them or that about 70k people can move a whole industry for a single group, wow, how amazing.

It was over 1 Million people, and the biggest player in that space. Why do you guys need to keep lying?

This isn't some twitter argument. This is serious journalists, in a proper and respected newspaper, publishing a report on the activity and bias of a heavily influential page in regards to Idols in South Korea.

Quote from wizone4life

sure.

Kakao have many artist, but people only target IVE

Because it was discovered and reported on that Kakao themselves heavily promoted IVE on that page compared to their other artists?

I really wish people read the report to understand what occured. People are focusing on IVE because Kakao themselves heavily focused on IVE with Idol Hub. They made more posts about IVE (and Wonyoung) then Twice, Blackpink, and Red Velvet put together.

You guys keep defending some shady stuff because you don't want anything to reflect badly on your faves. Of course IVE aren't responsible for what Kakao did, but they are clear beneficiaries.

Quote from bbgc

Oh thanks.. didn't know this piece of news.

Well that's the probelm when companies own different business which potentially have impact on each other.

Bezos owns Washington Post now, do an analysis of how critical the paper has been of Amazon vs. other business competitors.

Similar case.

Nothing will come of it, because it is legal.

At best public can be made aware of the bias, and the will compensate for that.

Disevidence

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Now that who owns the page was made public, it's been scrubbed from existence.

The issue is prior to this, for the last year and the outsize number of posts this Kpop page made, no-one was aware the were owned by Kakao - everyone still thought it was a private citizen.

The question is asked how much impact did this site have? It was the biggest in Korea. How different would have people behaved if they knew this site was owned by Kakao?

Those are now the fundamentals in play, the questions being asked. But exposing it now is good, but also comes after the fact- it's gone, and IVE have "beaten" (for lack of a better tern) their contemporaries. If this has been exposed a year ago, prior to IVE debuting, one but can't help but wonder if things would be different, given the popularity of the page.

Its gonna fuel heaps of conspiracies, Kakao have basically poisoned the well of an already poisonous landscape.

Quote from bbgc

So what exactly is the problem here?

The Astro-turfing is very much a problem.

No-one has any problem with Kakao using their labeled media or other avenues to promote their group. But secretly buying an influential and hithero private page with a large amount of followers, and then pushing a far disproportionate response for their own artists vs non owned artists without declaring it?

That's a problem. Or at least many many people see it as a problem, and I happen to agree.

Quote from killthisfenty

But the article says KAKAO idol groups have unnecessary positive comments while other GG have negative one but the post say that’s 5000 comments about IVE were negatives ??

Listen to me carefully

I don't know what "post" you are referring to, but if it's that tweet, it's *wrong*. Not a difference of opinion, not something subjective, but flat out incorrect information.

The numbers in the smaller image are just about how many posts the Hub made, and who they made it about. It's to demonstrate the sheer volume of posts it did about IVE and Wonyoung compared to other similarly successful groups.

The number is not hate posts, it just count posts. Then the 2nd part is the analysis done by Chosun - they reported and analyzed the posts, and explained that those posts are *positive* posts about the group.

The tweet you linked is completely false about them being "hate" posts. The report is done by proper journalists, in a proper newspaper, and they found the posts about IVE were positive, and by the numbers, they posted about IVE and Wonyoung far more numerously then any other Idol Group.

Quote from killthisfenty

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I guess Kakao wants to ruin their career lol

That's not hate posts. The tweet is outright lying - completely fabricating the report and analysis done.

That image is just counting the number of posts. The report specifies they were positive.