yes. Im tired of the word 'organic' in relation to kpop. Almost no group has had a truly organic growth.
The only groups I would consider truly 'organic' to an extent is probably brave girls or EXID. or even BTS (hardly) in their early days.
And that brings me to Butter: The song is a success because the fanbase is organic.
How about the organic growth of a fanbase, based on the love for your music and you as an artist?
Also I can’t stand the word organic, and “touch the grass!” Imma grass allergic human not a grass eating donkey
but you get a dedicat fanbase by getting new fans organically , with people liking your personality or your music
you don't pay people to become your fans, so i don't see how a dedicate fanbase can be inorganic
so i don't see how you can compare both when they are the same
huh?
i think its a me problem then
my three braincells cant comprehend it lmao
No, It's a me problem: I just woke up and wrote this thread LOL. What I meant was having a dedicated fanbase IS Organic.
Without a fanbase, an artist had nothing and no record label will touch you without one unless you sign a developmental deal.
I'm conflicted.
Earning a dedicated fanbase as big as Army is extremely impressive, one of the most impressive feats ever in pop music probably. However, by your own definition, it wouldnt be organic since BTS had a label to push them, and were just as manufactured as every other pop group. BangPD funded them, used his connections from his time at JYP to get them on music shows, etc.
To me, a true purely organic star is someone who sets up their own tiktok or yt channel without outside label help or promotions, and just goes viral.
what is even organiz artist
yes. Im tired of the word 'organic' in relation to kpop. Almost no group has had a truly organic growth.
The only groups I would consider truly 'organic' to an extent is probably brave girls or EXID. or even BTS (hardly) in their early days.
Again, I need to clarify: A dedicated fanbase is the definition of Organic. YET, the steps an act takes after aren't as Organic.
One of the reasons why BTS is so successful is because that fanbase that they have built ORGANICALLY keeps building momentum despite all teh pitfalls that are usually "afforded" to artists in the music business.
oh i understand now lmao
I'm sorry my writing is so bad 
what is even organiz artist
There is such a thing: Historically, record labels will try and cash in on a fad and historical, this tactic rarely works for the artists in question.
You got to understand tho; Whether that artists succeeds or fails, SOMEONE at the label is always getting paid....
Again, I need to clarify: A dedicated fanbase is the definition of Organic. YET, the steps an act takes after aren't as Organic.
One of the reasons why BTS is so successful is because that fanbase that they have built ORGANICALLY keeps building momentum despite all teh pitfalls that are usually "afforded" to artists in the music business.
But BTS used BangPD's money and connections to build that fanbase. Is using a label considered "organic"?
I'm conflicted.
Earning a dedicated fanbase as big as Army is extremely impressive, one of the most impressive feats ever in pop music probably. However, by your own definition, it wouldnt be organic since BTS had a label to push them, and were just as manufactured as every other pop group. BangPD funded them, used his connections from his time at JYP to get them on music shows, etc.
To me, a true purely organic star is someone who sets up their own tiktok or yt channel without outside label help or promotions, and just goes viral.
I mean, on one level, I agree with you, but at the same time,
Wasn't Big Hit an absolute cluster at the time?
BangPD didn't have those connections, which is why the label nearly went bankrupt. He had to go to JYP, who lent him 2am to co-manage, which is how he started to build up connections and management experience. And even then, BTS had trouble booking shows iirc?
With the way k-pop is structured, starting from the absolute bottom isn't a realistic prospect, but I feel like BTS really did the next best thing?
I'm conflicted.
Earning a dedicated fanbase as big as Army is extremely impressive, one of the most impressive feats ever in pop music probably. However, by your own definition, it wouldnt be organic since BTS had a label to push them, and were just as manufactured as every other pop group. BangPD funded them, used his connections from his time at JYP to get them on music shows, etc.
To me, a true purely organic star is someone who sets up their own tiktok or yt channel without outside label help or promotions, and just goes viral.
Yeah JYP connections were so powerful that they managed to not win a single music show until 2 years after debut!
How about the organic growth of a fanbase, based on the love for your music and you as an artist?
Also I can’t stand the word organic, and “touch the grass!” Imma grass allergic human not a grass eating donkey
Absolutely. This exists. Again, a dedicated fanbase is Organic. Could you do things that could perhaps... expand that fanbase in an inorganic way?
Sure, but at the end of the day, if you could use such tactics, as most successful acts in music do, and not only expand your audience but hold on to that growing audience, why WOULDN'T you do it?
Yeah JYP connections were so powerful that they managed to not win a single music show until 2 years after debut!
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Wut? Connections give you an opportunity, it doesnt guarantee music wins like wtf? lol.
BTS signed with a label that manufactured everything for them, their training, music, choreo, production, promotion, marketing, etc. Just like any other pop group.
Now, they have the backing of the entire music industry in Korea and the US. They are truly the Sith overlords of pop music!
There is such a thing: Historically, record labels will try and cash in on a fad and historical, this tactic rarely works for the artists in question.
You got to understand tho; Whether that artists succeeds or fails, SOMEONE at the label is always getting paid....
yeah, thats why they are no popular organic artist, everyone pushed by label, organic artist i know of is carls storm, he is independent artist and he has youtube channel only have 14.4K subs, go support organiz artist
music, choreo, production, promotion, marketing, etc.
You just described the music industry
You just described the music industry
Exactly, that's what i mean, BangPd and his peeps manufactured everything for BTS. None of BTS was organic, just like 99.99% of pop acts. They're all dependent on their labels to train them, produce their music and promote them.
If BTS had just formed their own band in a garage and started up a YT channel with their own music, choreo, etc, and then blew up like that, that would be organic. Once you sign onto a label that invests millions into you, i dont know if that qualifies as "organic".
Absolutely. This exists. Again, a dedicated fanbase is Organic. Could you do things that could perhaps... expand that fanbase in an inorganic way?
Sure, but at the end of the day, if you could use such tactics, as most successful acts in music do, and not only expand your audience but hold on to that growing audience, why WOULDN'T you do it?
I mean I can only use my own experience... but in the end music primarily will give u fans, no? So it’s a circular movement, better music / more fans.
There are thousands of good looking or likable artist out there.I semi staned several groups and watch vlive bc I genuinly enjoy them as persons but lost interest when I wasn’t fed music I liked.
but you get a dedicat fanbase by getting new fans organically , with people liking your personality or your music
you don't pay people to become your fans, so i don't see how a dedicate fanbase can be inorganic
so i don't see how you can compare both when they are the same
No, you're right: A dedicated fanbase IS Organic. HOWEVER, you could take measures to grow your fanbase that may or not be considered " Organic"....
BUT if you end up doubling your fanbase AND you hold on to that fanbase, does it really matter in the end?!
Everyone's success is organic since we humans are organic.
Everyone's success is organic since we humans are organic.
except Hatsune Miku. She's the only inorganic one.
Yeah, but achievements that were made at the expense of a dedicated fanbase are not "organic" and there's nothing wrong with that either.
There's nothing wrong with fandom-driven groups. Thank goodness groups have people who like them.
But can labels really get dedicated fans willing to spend 1000s on albums, merch and concert tickets? I've seen artist pushed down my throat and if I can't get into them I'll just look the other way.
I'm conflicted.
Earning a dedicated fanbase as big as Army is extremely impressive, one of the most impressive feats ever in pop music probably. However, by your own definition, it wouldnt be organic since BTS had a label to push them, and were just as manufactured as every other pop group. BangPD funded them, used his connections from his time at JYP to get them on music shows, etc.
To me, a true purely organic star is someone who sets up their own tiktok or yt channel without outside label help or promotions, and just goes viral.
BUT BTS essentially did the same thing: They went viral in their own way. They were NEVER supposed to hit the ceilings that they hit but here we are. And that kind of growth only works when you have a DEDICATED fanbase.
Yeah, setting up your own YT and stuff, that's cool, but you're essentially doing the same shit that an A&R would do for you.
Eventually, those Tik Tok/ YT artists are going to have those same conversations with record labels and/ distributors that Big Hit did.
But BTS used BangPD's money and connections to build that fanbase. Is using a label considered "organic"?
Well, money doesn't grow on trees and neither do fans. Yeah, they might have had money and connections but eventually, EVERYONE is going to need money and connections.
It's all about HOW and WHO is using them. I can name off a list of artists and musical acts who had all the connections and money and features on their albums and barely went Gold.
No, you're right: A dedicated fanbase IS Organic. HOWEVER, you could take measures to grow your fanbase that may or not be considered " Organic"....
BUT if you end up doubling your fanbase AND you hold on to that fanbase, does it really matter in the end?!
i don't see how you can grow your fanbase inorganically -_-
it's not like you can clone your fans
The main difference is between growing the fanbase through word of mouth and grassroots effort by fans themselves vs industry push, promo and media campaigns.
Eventually everyone gets the media attention if theyre big enough, but not everyone has all the tools in the start. And BTS was one of artists with the least amount of tools at their disposal. They were simply more talented, charming and inventive than most of artists in pop music globally.
But BTS used BangPD's money and connections to build that fanbase. Is using a label considered "organic"?
On the organic-ness scale, doing it all by yourself is the most organic. Still you would need to forge some connections by yourself and have to spend your own money to get somewhere.
Kpop groups don't release music without a label. Whether the label they are signed to is a major one or not is the issue.
People credit their YouTube vlogs and vlives and Twitter posts for their fandom success which you don't need many connections for.
I mean, on one level, I agree with you, but at the same time,
Wasn't Big Hit an absolute cluster at the time?
BangPD didn't have those connections, which is why the label nearly went bankrupt. He had to go to JYP, who lent him 2am to co-manage, which is how he started to build up connections and management experience. And even then, BTS had trouble booking shows iirc?
With the way k-pop is structured, starting from the absolute bottom isn't a realistic prospect, but I feel like BTS really did the next best thing?
Actually, with the way K Pop is structured, you're better off starting with nothing than trying to blow up in K Pop.
There's way too much to lose trying to get a start in K Pop. At least being an independent artist, the losses are solely on you.
The main difference is between growing the fanbase through word of mouth and grassroots effort by fans themselves vs industry push, promo and media campaigns.
Eventually everyone gets the media attention if theyre big enough, but not everyone has all the tools in the start. And BTS was one of artists with the least amount of tools at their disposal. They were simply more talented, charming and inventive than most of artists in pop music globally.
I think holding their current level of power against them is so, so, stupid.
They had to fight for their seat at the table and even now, their occupation of it is only grudgingly accepted.
Basically it got to the point where a major like Columbia couldn't NOT get behind them. I mean, tbh, Columbia didn't even do fuck-all until very recently... I still feel like whatever industry recognition or congratulations BTS get, it's given through gritted teeth.
Best believe that they don't have long-term support and the real powerbrokers are just wishing for a return to the status quo eventually.
In the tech world, they call it the, "not invented here" syndrome.
Wut? Connections give you an opportunity, it doesnt guarantee music wins like wtf? lol.
BTS signed with a label that manufactured everything for them, their training, music, choreo, production, promotion, marketing, etc. Just like any other pop group.
Now, they have the backing of the entire music industry in Korea and the US. They are truly the Sith overlords of pop music!
Err, manufactured is a weird word. I look at it like this; Every genre of music is like a basketball court, the music act is a basketball team and the record label, if there is one,
provides the jerseys, the training and the actual basketball BUT the team now has to go out there and make those shots and not only has BTS made ALL the shots,
they turned around and told the music business that if anyone wants to play them they have to play in BTS'S basketball court. Make sense?
yeah, thats why they are no popular organic artist, everyone pushed by label, organic artist i know of is carls storm, he is independent artist and he has youtube channel only have 14.4K subs, go support organiz artist
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Who in the blue hell is Carl Storm? I know Carl's Jr......
But seriously, even so called Organic artists follow trends and study measures to get popular. That is, if they like money LOL.
You just described the music industry
Marketing is kind of it's own animal 
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