Is the heavy routine based training system responsible for the lack of emotional depth and connection in idol music?

it's quite possible. You can tell because there are a handful of idols who seem like they're ready to break out at any moment

but for some odd reason, they never do. I chalk it up to either their training or direction via record label.

Kpop is like that because kpop fans want it like that. There many been many times that when an artist releases a slower or more serious song, even fans will be like 'but where's my bop?' because a lot of them think kpop like a real doll play and they are here just for fun not deep stuff.

Lyrics or serious content discussions have been ridiculed and mocked. 'Who cares about lyrics, it's not my language.'

On the other hand, it's not guaranteed that a deep song will touch you. I kinda agree with what you said. There has been some songs with great lyrics that were performed perfectly technique and notes wise but they have failed to reach me. So, that depends on many things.

And because you mentioned k rnb, I often feel the same way with those artists as well. I often feel they release extremely safe and even unoriginal music because they know that will make the average coffee shop customer Korean like it.

I do think the combination of obsession with perfection and the sterile environment where most of the kpop training happens contributes to the general lack of charisma and ability to really connect to the audience a lot of kpop has. In normal circumstances, aspiring artists perform a lot. Anyone learning singing or dancing gets opportunities to perform, aspiring bands perform in smaller venues, even Japanese idols perform while theyre still trainees. They learn to interact with the audience in more natural ways, they make mistakes and learn from them, they dont emerge fully formed and "perfect". In kpop they perform for some evaluation committees, they get personality training etc etc. Thats why it seems to me that usually the longer someone has trained with the traditional kpop style, the more stiff and unnatural they are. And of course that kind of training stiffles creativity and individuality. Which is the point, kpop companies dont need it, they need idols to fill pre-defined roles.

There are some songs that have emotional depth tho. Oneus, a 4th gen group, has several. While most are hidden bsides, they still exist. I won't discount the fact that it's partly because they are somewhat self producing tho.

2 examples:

And yes, this is promo, but also to prove that 4th gen isn't all the same your boomers. Come here and tell me who else is doing a hacking/matrix style comeback? Huh? HUH?

Most bgs look angry when they perform 🤷‍♀️

Quote from Flowercrew

Most bgs look angry when they perform 🤷‍♀️

true, it is like idols no longer know how to have fun on stage. choreographies keep getting harder and lipsynching has become the norm (at least in televised performances), there is no room for improvising, adlibbing and interacting with fans. of course concerts are different since idols have more freedom and choreographies are less restrictive, but the detached and impassionate way idols are made to perform with because of this environement will eventually affect how they perform in concerts too since this will be all they know how to do.

its just cause its boygroup/girl group music

2000s american boybands were never looked at as "deep"

1direction etc etc

they used to scream "its not a real band if you dont play instruments" and all this bitching has led to modern usa pop music being boring as shit as they put on this "authentic" application to everything

and why does everything need to be serious, KPOP doesnt need to be, it good looking people sing n dancing, just love it for what it is.

some of my best concert experiences are from EDM shows where i was rollin hard af, "deep lyrics" never made a god damn difference

idols just come out prepared, so they dont look like complete shit, where as most new artists are NEW and perform like shit, it takes time to learn to perform better and find their groove

I think if you look hard you can find good kpop bands. I know where you coming from. I’m listening korean r&b and indie too not only pop. I have 5-6 group I listen from kpop. The current bg boygroups are really not my taste, some of them emphasize the performance more then the emotions. I do have some recommendation.

I’m an army too but I will skip on the boys since people already recommended some song.

1. Purple Kiss. Not R&B but a very nice groovy song, not your average girl group in my opinion.

They ballad song Period was amazing when they performed it on they showcase. I’m not sure how much is live but I don’t care. For a girl group who just debuted this song is beautiful.

2. Signal

Somebody recommended this group because they are nugu’s and that time they had only around 1500 view on YouTube. I fell in love with this song.

One of the member cover of Meloh-smile. Live in a studio. Just a little camera, him and a microphone. I wish this group would be more popular. ❤️

Quote from quark12395

Can we please drop the myth that writing your own music automatically gives you a deeper connection to something? There are singers who don't write their own music who do plenty of emotional connections with both the song and the audience. Just because you're involved in the writing of a song doesn't automatically make it any deeper or any better than music being put out by someone who isn't.

I agree. Writing your own story into a song can help, but there is plenty of artist out there who can make a song what he had nothing to do with emotional. It’s more depends how much they understand of that song how much they can feel it when they sing. Also the some of the genre of the music in my opinion also harder to connect. Dish out a deep meaningful love song R&B song for a 14 year old and they may have harder time to connect to it then a song by a popular group about for example...friends or showing the finger to the haters.

Wow this is such a good question.

I think the IDOL system does not have anything to do with the less artistic side of kpop. After all even BTS benefitted from this. I think it has more to do with the kpop industry and the standards set by it.

The companies place more emphasis on visuals, talents such as good vocals and great dancing. But I don't blame them. Most kpop stans prioritize this more and so the companies only indulge in this to make profits because that is what sells. Later when the act becomes more established then they are willing to give them some freedom in writing. But by then it is a bit too late. After all musicality is nurtured. Someone who has been spoonfed since the beginning will find it hard when it comes to writing music unlike someone who started with it.

The Criterion needs to change. Lemme use BTS as an example. The only difference between BigHit and the other bigger companies was their selection to their recruits. They priortised already talented people who could make music and made them the core of BTS. They also made sure they had inputs from the beginning so they could learn and get better as they grew. And it worked in the long run. The other members got influenced by those already in the game and the whole group grew exceptionally well. To boost it off BTS got such a good glowup from being called ugly at debut compared to their idols counterparts.

So in summary I believe if kpop fans start to appreciate more about the artistic side of their faves writing their own music compared to the other standards i mentioned above, the companies will change and add that kind of experience to their selection process. So unless kpop stans start caring, this will not change

Quote from quark12395

Can we please drop the myth that writing your own music automatically gives you a deeper connection to something? There are singers who don't write their own music who do plenty of emotional connections with both the song and the audience. Just because you're involved in the writing of a song doesn't automatically make it any deeper or any better than music being put out by someone who isn't.

So not saying that people who don't write or are not involved in their own song can't connect emotionally, but writing and putting out your own stories will definitely give you an edge. You're obviously going to be more attached and emotional if you're singing about something you have written and would be able to communicate those emotions to the audience easier.

I agree to an extent. First, their music is given to them most of the time so they are only performers. As performers, they are great at emoting different songs all while being skilled (in singing and dancing). Why those paid producers don't have depth has nothing to do with the idol's training life. When idols involve themselves in production/writing, they show way more passion and depth to them IMO. Don't rate "the level of depth" based on your understanding and how much you relate to it. Because many people/viewers do that. They expect artists to express their (the viewers) struggles to feel the depth. If said artists expressed their own struggles instead through performing or writing their music, said viewers would think less of it if they don't relate. The music industry all around the world, in general, always had shallow themes and concepts. Because most of the time people listen to music for fun, not for the depth (which is also great but shouldn't be all or nothing). What I agree with is that spending their lives on training has an effect on them and how they portray their emotions in general not just on music. IMO I would say more than lacking depth but rather they lived differently so the level of relating to most viewers is limited compared to other artists.

Quote from LovenRose

Mmmh i don’t know, maybe that plays a part in it. I often feel like idols focus more on being entertaining than doing justice to the song while performing (one consequence is lipsync). Thing is it’s been kinda proven that fans like this flash and shallowness so agencies encourage it and sometimes even forces it. Even if an idol wants to connect more with the music side of their work they don’t get the opportunity in an idol group. ex-Winner Taehyun for example left the group (instantly loosing a good chance at money and success) because their music didn’t feel right for him and he felt artistically stifled. And Winner is one of the groups out there with the most artistic freedom.

Stronger example. BTS original lineup who left because they didn't like the idol life style and controlled music (I know someone is a producer for them anyway but I bet even he deep inside wishes he didn't give up).

Also, this is off topic but I feel like saying it after reading the comments. I am a fan of artists for being performers, not for the production. If I were to stan for the music rather than the artist's own skills and charisma (singing and dancing) then I would only stan songs from different people and no artist in particular.

Their skill IMO is more important to me than the type of music they release every time. Sometimes I like what they put out and other times I don't.

As an American who hates US pop music, I can relate to this. I've always had a very particular taste in music and pick and choose who I listened to because I only like music from artist that have obvious connection and passion for their music. Sincerity behind the music is always important to be and anything less makes me question why you became a musician in the first place and automatically makes me disinterested. For kpop, I resisted a ton in becoming a BTS fan because I knew the kpop industry was not sincere like most US pop, but crazily enough BTS were exactly the type of artist I like (depth and passion over entertainment) so it was veryy surprising to me. So ultimately I think one can find those gems if they look hard enough within any system.

Quote from quantumphysics

Even Korean fans care for just escapism. I was intrigued by the possibility of the genre moving away from these type of fans. Do you think it's possible?

As long as companies think that this is the way to make more money, then no. Because they bring the money.

People worship casual gp listeners but they are actually fickle. The more attached a fan, the more money they will give.

So, despite using different strategies, every company wants to give fans what they want.