We need to talk about group dynamics.

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    On the mainsite, this article about Sunmi was recently posted and I think this user's comment was very insightful despite the fact that they usually have idiotic takes.


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    And it made me think that, yeah, kpop fans truly don't talk about the dynamics of being in a kpop group more. Hearing this from Sunmi actually makes me wonder. Like..what if my faves are experiencing this? What if any one of them has felt so often overlooked due to fans paying attention to only one member?


    My heart breaks because I know what its like to feel invisible so often. But at the same time, I get mad because I think forward to how much of that fan favoritism is influenced by the company either through promoting a specific member all the time, placing that member in the center position at an unusual rate, more screentime for that member, etc, etc.

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    Was there wider context around the Sunmi comment?


    What is interesting in Sunmi's case is she was by far the least popular member of the Wonder Girls, especially when they debuted.


    And yet she's gone on to have the most successful solo career out of all of them.


    Hopefully cases like this are a glimmer of hope for members lacking popularity in their groups.

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    Quote from vinslow4

    It's depend more on virality tbh, otherwise they'll be the "boring visual".


    On the other hand, you can definitely work hard into visual.

    No???


    The visual is almost aways pushed by the company first. And "working hard into visual" usually means plastic surgery, which is usually a bad decision seeing as fans will act stupid and drag an idol to hell for undergoing plastic surgery like as if their faves havent done the same.

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    Quote from CaraFIMIE

    No???


    The visual is almost aways pushed by the company first. And "working hard into visual" usually means plastic surgery, which is usually a bad decision seeing as fans will act stupid and drag an idol to hell for undergoing plastic surgery like as if their faves havent done the same.


    There are two sides of this matter:

    - PS is not the only way to "work" into visual, changing style and weight work too,

    - Visual is just people's perception. If you are successful/popular enough you can even change the beauty standard, people will act like the more pretty but less popular members don't even exist.


    For example, in this context about Wonder Girls, the most popular member back then was Sohee. But was she the prettiest member? No. It's because she got viral for the "Omona" part in Tell Me choreo. Since then people started to like her visual and treated it as a new standard.


    Basically, it always boils down to luck. You can't control luck but you can create more chances for yourself to earn it.

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    Quote from vinslow4

    It's good because it encourages competition between team members. No one should feel comfortable just because they're part of the team.


    Some groups even have a system where members can be replaced if they don't work hard enough.

    There's a very fine balance between "healthy competition" and creating a hostile, dog-eat-dog environment, that is mentally exhausting for the members , (which can also lead to rifts between the members or even bullying). The system you are describing sounds closer to the latter to me, a toxic work environment.

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    Quote from Bottles

    There's a very fine balance between "healthy competition" and creating a hostile, dog-eat-dog environment, that is mentally exhausting for the members , (which can also lead to rifts between the members or even bullying). The system you are describing sounds closer to the latter to me, a toxic work environment.

    Unfortunately, this system exists.


    From CCM CEO's letter:


    Quote

    Like this, if other T-ara members are harmed by members who are conceited and not working hard, I have the idea of boldly replacing that member and recruiting a new member.

    https://en.namu.wiki/w/%ED%8B%B0%EC%95%84%EB%9D%BC%209%EC%9D%B8%EC%A1%B0%20%EA%B0%9C%ED%8E%B8


    Some groups encourage it even more by letting fans to vote on the center or having a ranking within the members.

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    Quote from vinslow4

    It's good because it encourages competition between team members. No one should feel comfortable just because they're part of the team.


    Some groups even have a system where members can be replaced if they don't work hard enough.


    See, even you get that a lot of this really comes down to luck. Hard work alone just isn’t enough to make someone popular, and that’s the sad truth. And the part I don’t agree with you on is when you say idols can “create their own chances,” because most of them barely have control over anything. A lot of them can’t even pick their own airport outfits or choose what they want to eat. The company decides who gets pushed, who gets solo gigs, who gets to go on variety shows, and even who’s allowed to do a LIVE.


    And breaking out of that setup is almost impossible unless you have that crazy, undeniable star power that only a few idols naturally have. On top of that, I don't think any less popular members feel comfortable in their position, because even they know their group will not last forever. I bet they feel the most anxious all the time especially being ignored by fans and their company all the time but unable to do anything to change that.

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    In Korea, a good-looking face is always highlighted, even without much personality.


    International fans, however, have more diverse criteria and different standards… which makes it easier for idols to tick the right boxes.

    What really sets them apart now is their personality beyond their looks, and that’s what truly makes the difference.


    Also, no matter how much the company tries to hide you or discredit you… if you show character, energy and talent, the public will always notice you.


    People often blame companies and fans for favoritism, but at the same time, if your bias has nothing to offer beyond simply filling a spot in the group, you can’t expect fans to rush to them either.

    I won’t name anyone, but I already see quite a few idols who are only there to make up the numbers in a group.

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    T-ara, the group that was torn apart by toxic member dynamics (false bullying accusations etc).


    I'm confused. You originally advocated for this sort of system?


    Quote from vinslow4

    It's good because it encourages competition between team members. No one should feel comfortable just because they're part of the team.

    I'm not arguing that it doesn't exist. I am arguing against it being "good" for a group.

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    Quote from OopsEncoreMoi

    I won’t name anyone, but I already see quite a few idols who are only there to make up the numbers in a group.

    Those people should already be grateful to be part of a popular group.

    Imagine being in a nugu group and still being the least popular, things would be even worse.


    And for those who do have talent but haven’t been able to show it yet, I’m sorry… but I’d say: fight for your spotlight ?

    Little by little, people will eventually see who is truly carrying the group.

    • New
    Quote from OopsEncoreMoi

    People often blame companies and fans for favoritism, but at the same time, if your bias has nothing to offer beyond simply filling a spot in the group, you can’t expect fans to rush to them either.

    I won’t name anyone, but I already see quite a few idols who are only there to make up the numbers in a group.

    Saying this when the vocals of the group is usually the least biased in kpop.

    • New

    IVE has this problem, wonyoung is the most popular and the rest have to fight for attention. I mean look at REI, she had to have a whole glow up before fans paid attention to her. I feel bad for gauel because nobody ever talks about her and she's the least biased. But it's only natural for fans to have favourites. Some members are just boring and not good at anything.

    • New
    Quote from icyruios

    Was it about that time they were in hiatus and he was rejected by JYPE from doing a lot of his own stuff like twitch and some of his other solo music?

    He was speaking about it on Twitch during that whole time. Which was long ago, so my memory is hazy.

    But the gist I got was that:

    1. He felt the company prioritised other members more than him. In every respect, he felt that the company did not see him as important as the other members.

    2. I'm less sure about this, but I vaguely got the impression that, in his mind, he was also the least popular member in Korea. And that when he went back to the states and began streaming, he was genuinely surprised that so many people were supporting him.


    Now, I have a vague memory that I may be conflating with something another idol said. So this next part is not necessarily Jae: But I have heard an idol talk about, you know, fan signs and stuff. And how, the queue for them was always the smallest one. And that did begin to affect them because it was always so consistent.

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