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(I’m excluding the SM groups here cuz regardless of anything their fans will claim they are the most talented rendering any debate useless)
I surprisingly think 4th Gen GG’s are a lot more well rounded and talented than 3rd Gen. for example I don’t really enjoy IVE songs but I’ve seen clips of them live and they’re really amazing. And ofc no notes for new jeans.
(I’m excluding the SM groups here cuz regardless of anything their fans will claim they are the most talented rendering any debate useless)
I surprisingly think 4th Gen GG’s are a lot more well rounded and talented than 3rd Gen. for example I don’t really enjoy IVE songs but I’ve seen clips of them live and they’re really amazing. And ofc no notes for new jeans.
Okay, you wanna ignore SM groups, but what about smaller agency groups like i-dle or Mamamoo? Both of them are top groups as well. i-dle are top even outside of Asia.
To be honest, this doesn't mean anything, because Mamamoo alone is better than the whole 4th gen.
And I also think 3rd gen is better than 4th gen in general.
Okay, you wanna ignore SM groups, but what about smaller agency groups like i-dle or Mamamoo? Both of them are top groups as well. i-dle are top even outside of Asia.
To be honest, this doesn't mean anything, because Mamamoo alone is better than the whole 4th gen.
And I also think 3rd gen is better than 4th gen in general.
Then make your own thread.
NewJeans and IVE to be honest.
That's hard ??? I'll think some more before voting...
What If I say they are around the same level of talent, but with their individual strengths and weaknesses? 
What If I say they are around the same level of talent, but with their individual strengths and weaknesses?
WEAKKKKKKK
WEAKKKKKKK
Afaik the only fair comparison to MHJ would be Teddy since he's the only other producer I know of that also held a creative director position
Afaik the only fair comparison to MHJ would be Teddy since he's the only other producer I know of that also held a creative director position
JYP too I guess? He does both creative and music production right 
Afaik the only fair comparison to MHJ would be Teddy since he's the only other producer I know of that also held a creative director position
That can't be true.
You don't know who's Kenzie or Soyeon? Not to mention Legends like Kim Dohoon (MMM's creator) who made like 1000 songs.
Honestly, Kenzie alone beating MHJ and Teddy.
If you think about It, any of the four groups are known for being THE group in their generation for specific categories.
We know there are good vocalists among them, we know there good idol rappers, good dancers, they all have their writing credits in some songs, but there's nothing remarkable that sets one apart or two of them apart, so for me they are all around thr same level.
I feel this a nuanced conversation on what a creative is. Kenzie was not responsible for the styling and but she very much shaped the musical direction of many of the SM groups in a similar fashion to MHJ with NJZ. MHJ for example doesn’t have credits on music either (she doesn’t right?) where as with teddy he’s a creative with also music credits.
I feel this a nuanced conversation on what a creative is. Kenzie was not responsible for the styling and but she very much shaped the musical direction of many of the SM groups in a similar fashion to MHJ with NJZ. MHJ for example doesn’t have credits on music either (she doesn’t right?) where as with teddy he’s a creative with also music credits.
Correct on all points 😉
I feel this a nuanced conversation on what a creative is. Kenzie was not responsible for the styling and but she very much shaped the musical direction of many of the SM groups in a similar fashion to MHJ with NJZ. MHJ for example doesn’t have credits on music either (she doesn’t right?) where as with teddy he’s a creative with also music credits.
Its not meant to be a slight at producers like Kenzie or her influence. However, Min Heejin and Teddy are the only ones I know of that are responsible for the entirety their groups identity (concept, styling, branding, music, brand deals etc) for better or worse. Doesn't inherently make them better than their peers or more influential but it makes the comparison a bit harder, for me at least.
Or maybe I categorize stuff too much 
Its not meant to be a slight at producers like Kenzie or her influence. However, Min Heejin and Teddy are the only ones I know of that are responsible for the entirety their groups identity (concept, styling, branding, music, brand deals etc) for better or worse. Doesn't inherently make them better than their peers or more influential but it makes the comparison a bit harder, for me at least.
Or maybe I categorize stuff too much
I don’t know if teddy was that involved in the styling and concept and MHJ did not produce the music tho like teddy so she’s still not like teddy who also makes the music.
I feel SM in house producers like yoo young jin and Kenzie 100% shaped the creative direction in terms of music of entire SM.
I’m not talking about better or not MHJ and Teddy itself are not the same after all 👀
For me Kenzie and YYJ are like teddy not MHJ. She’s closer to SM and JYP if anything.
3rd Gen, easily.
BLACKPINK has better rappers.
TWICE has better singers.
Both groups are amazing performers.
Only 2 members of IVE are memorable singers.
2 members of IVE can dance. The rest are just meh.
NewJeans are pretty average dancers but can match each other's energy really well so +1 for them.
And then only 2 members of NewJeans are memorable singers. I haven't heard enough of the rest.
Neither can rap.
Display More3rd Gen, easily.
BLACKPINK has better rappers.
TWICE has better singers.
Both groups are amazing performers.
Only 2 members of IVE are memorable singers.
2 members of IVE can dance. The rest are just meh.
NewJeans are pretty average dancers but can match each other's energy really well so +1 for them.
And then only 2 members of NewJeans are memorable singers. I haven't heard enough of the rest.
Neither can rap.
New jeans songs are not rap heavy and I’ve and twice are about the same in their rap skills.
The average singing ability of IVE and NJZ imo is much higher than BP and Twice. Performance wise all four groups are good. But I found IVE live much better than twice for example and NJZ is as good as BP and much better than twice in every aspect overall.
I guess we have different perspective on what talent is.
None of them?
The 4th gen is a bit vocally challenged. Like none of the member's talent stands out more then their songs. And their songs aren't particularly hard to sing or dance to.
The third gen I can see some of the members stood out a bit more but some members gave nothing. So, slightly conflicted. Both 3rd gen groups needed a bit of editing of members to show their talent.
First half of 3rd gen was way more fun
Considering 4th gen still didn't end
New jeans songs are not rap heavy and I’ve and twice are about the same in their rap skills.
The average singing ability of IVE and NJZ imo is much higher than BP and Twice. Performance wise all four groups are good. But I found IVE live much better than twice for example and NJZ is as good as BP and much better than twice in every aspect overall.
I would not consider IVE and TWICE equal by any means.
Liz could probably end most members of TWICE when it comes to singing but that's just about it. Yujin is a close second but Jihyo alone can outsing any other member of IVE.
I also would not consider NJZ better than TWICE in "every" aspect. Dance yes, vocals no and rap no. NJZ doesn't even have a rapper and NJZ's developed vocalists < TWICE's developed vocalists. And yes, TWICE has Momo but any member of NJZ can outdance any other member of TWICE.
Not sure if that makes sense but I just think the BP + TWICE duo covers more talent.
I'm not using the talent gap criteria because that ultimately favors the group with less members.
Display MoreI would not consider IVE and TWICE equal by any means.
Liz could probably end most members of TWICE when it comes to singing but that's just about it. Yujin is a close second but Jihyo alone can outsing any other member of IVE.
I also would not consider NJZ better than TWICE in "every" aspect. Dance yes, vocals no and rap no. NJZ doesn't even have a rapper and NJZ's developed vocalists < TWICE's developed vocalists. And yes, TWICE has Momo but any member of NJZ can outdance any other member of TWICE.
Not sure if that makes sense but I just think the BP + TWICE duo covers more talent.
Jihyo’s voice is highly strained almost all of the time so I guess I gotta disagree. New jeans are higher than twice vocally. Esp overall as a group.
Because I rank vocals much higher than rap skills and I find IVE and NJZ to be significant enough better on average than BP and twice I would have to give it to them.
I'm not using the talent gap criteria because that ultimately favors the group with less members.
But it won’t change the fact that less talented members are still singing and very much part of the group.
twice bp but not by much
What If I say they are around the same level of talent, but with their individual strengths and weaknesses?
Actually I think this is the fairest
Actually the most talented is Day6 they are the best GG of all gens
I don’t think creative directors get credit tho? JYP conceptualized his groups similar to MHJ.
I don’t think creative directors get credit tho? JYP conceptualized his groups similar to MHJ.
Afaik both the creative & art directors get credited in most albums.
JYP's involvement with his groups is hard to gauge at times, especially since he's significantly scaled back after instituting divisions to handle the groups
Jihyo’s voice is highly strained almost all of the time so I guess I gotta disagree. New jeans are higher than twice vocally. Esp overall as a group.
Because I rank vocals much higher than rap skills and I find IVE and NJZ to be significant enough better on average than BP and twice I would have to give it to them.
Interesting.
That doesn't negate the fact that she's still a more developed vocalist than the entirety of NJZ, tho
But it won’t change the fact that less talented members are still singing and very much part of the group.
Yeah ik, I just don't see how judging who's more talented based on who's less talented makes sense.
I assess each member's ACTUAL talent instead of just saying "TWICE has a bigger talent gap so BP must be more talented" or wtv
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