Didn't Treasure and Cravity both have a first 3 title tracks that no one would like if they were nugu

Treasure - Boy, I Love You, Mmm

Cravity - Break All The Rules, Flame, My Turn (and Gas Pedal)

The Treasure songs all have a drop hook that tests your morals and respect

The Cravity songs have annoying repetitive phrases

Overall, none of them are very strong in the choruses

Obviously they have a level of polish which is hard to imagine as a new debut from an unknown company. But if you just listen to these as songs, they don't seem like songs you would go back to listen to if it was just some random group

I think many people would think this for Cravity's first 3 tracks, but the thing is it also applies to Treasure

edit: I think they both should have been in the "groups with too many sales for their music" thread before Jikjin and Adrenaline

Quote from xx-jenn-xx

i like all of cravity's title tracks so not everyone thinks like this.

nothing wrong with any of cravity's music...your'e so judgemental

I mean yes it is just my personal opinion but I put the title as a fact because "I personally feel that Treasure and Cravity both have a first 3 title tracks that no one would like if they were nugu" just doesn't seem as smooth

Quote from xx-jenn-xx

i like all of cravity's title tracks so not everyone thinks like this.

nothing wrong with any of cravity's music...your'e so judgemental

wait, you think nothing is wrong with My Turn?

Quote from xx-jenn-xx

no i said their title tracks are good because i hate it

of course i like it so again your opinion is wrong. Even if they were nugu i'd enjoy it.

I liked all of Treasure's but I think they objectively have weak choruses that are hard to like. Only after listening multiple times I really could get behind it. So for me I think if they were unknown I wouldn't have liked them

Quote from kpopace26

My Turn is a bop! Break All The Rules grew on me. Flame is so-so, but very groovy. I hate Gas Pedal, sorry.

For TREASURE, I get that most people like everything about those three songs except for the chorus drops. Heck, plenty dislike chorus drops in the K-Pop community in general. The plus is, they are really great songs for concerts/performances.

For Treasure, that is a good point, the intro and verse of the songs are also memorable, and actually there is a lot going on in the song and production that would incline you to think it's a good song even if you don't like the chorus

But I still think the choruses are confusing and not memorable enough to stand out if they weren't YG Treasure (They also have a last-verse switch up which makes it more difficult to remember the original chorus)

I think a good way to simulate this is, imagine the group is TOO, TOO - Boy, TOO - I Love You, TOO - Mmm

Quote from quarkie

I don't understand this thread. People enjoy music from nugus groups too. Can't y'all just say you don't like their music without dragging groups who did nothing wrong?

Yes, I enjoy unknown groups songs too, but my point is that if a song is not immediately hooking, people will not re-listen to it if it's a totally unknown group. And the Treasure and Cravity songs are in that category of not immediately hooking.

If we removed all the prestige and had a completely unknown group release the songs, it would not stand out from the music of other lesser known to barely known groups that we know. No one would call them underrated, they wouldn't be anyone's favorite lesser known song, they would just be seen as very typical and mediocre. It would seem as if "any random nugu could release this"

Quote from russianvelvet

I mean, I think it's worded very harshly in OP, but I understand where you're coming from. My views on Cravity and Treasure both started to change with Hello and Adrenaline. But my relationship with Cravity has been a fucking rollercoaster in itself taking twists and turns and a lot of their songs had to grow on me so I can appreciate it.

And let's be honest here: All groups aren't where they are today without their company. However I do think Treasure and Cravity would still have fans, even if they came from a small company.

Yes true, I am just talking about Treasure and Cravity as other famous groups at least have something solid in their first few songs. My argument is these songs don't have anything competitive at all. They are not immediately hooking, so that wouldn't be a song people listen to again if the group had no other assets

As for OP, I could have just called them "mediocre" but my more specific and interesting point is that no one would like them if they were nugu, because they are mediocre

Quote from xx-jenn-xx

Youre so repetitive and annoying as someone who listens to nugus religiously your point DOES NOT stand because I WOULD listen and enjoy the songs you listed. NUGU OR NOT. You are not making much sense. People enjoy their music no matter what company they are from. Just because you didnt, has no bearing on anyone else.

Quote from BEYBLADE

like if you dont get it, you dont get it. if you dont like it, you dont like it. you dont have to act like these songs ruined ur life even if i wasnt a big ass luvity and knew nothing about cravity, i would definitely have my turn and gas pedal on repeat because why??? THEYRE FUN and i love to have fun.

I think you guys interpreted me as too extreme, yes the title was "no one would like their music" but of course I was not claiming that not a single person would ever like it, because that's impossible. I meant "no one will like it" colloquially and generally.

And I don't mean that because I don't like the songs, that means the majority of people won't like them. I am speculating that majority of people won't like the songs, because first, all of them (except My Turn imo) are hard to remember. Second, their choruses come off as cheap or repetitive to a lot of people -> so they are objectively weak which I use to mean the same thing as objectively divisive. They can also come off as energetic or epic to other people.

I guess what you guys more mean is that I can't claim what is "objectively divisive" or claim that the majority of people would not like a song, just based on my own perception. I agree, I am not a musical expert or know everyone's individual opinions, but I am just guessing that they are probably divisive based on:

1. They have elements that are common peeves of listeners, namely drops and repetition (not everyone thinks Cravity's debut is annoying but because there is a repeated word that is not particularly meaningful, I would bet that a lot of people do)

2. Although every famous group's K-pop song gets disliked by some people, I think that these songs had more mixed reactions than for example, Enhypen, TXT, BP. To a higher degree than just any group

3. I have not seen a lot of people say these songs are great or their favorites, which I have seen and understood for other famous or non famous groups' songs. So again, I don't think it's the same as for every group

Plus that in my opinion, none of them have a hook/chorus that is particularly catchy or particularly great. But the above 3 things are what I think is the opinion of a lot of people.

(Edit: And finally, my guess is, because of all of this, the songs would not be listened if the group was unknown)

Although now that I have started to re-listen to some of the songs to remember them, I realize I Love You and My Turn have choruses that kind of dig one line into your head. So maybe I would edit things to say that these 2 songs are catchy and memorable, but there is a flip side that it is done in a very simple way which can be perceived negatively by some.

Quote from russianvelvet

Disagree with the hooking part: Boy and My Turn, say what you want about the quality of them, are extremely hooking. When I was a critic of Cravity I could never forget their title tracks, depsite how good or bad they were, so that is saying smth.

To be fair, yes, but then again we could say that about any group including my faves. So I don't think it's that necessary to call out Treasure and Cravity on this when most groups in history have been successful with a reason of their company.

I would not call both groups mediorce now. Treasure's obviously has their own sound and are going to continue carving it like it's a sculpture. Cravity's music is so frustrating but that's why I'm a Luvity in the first place: Because I want to be challenged on what I like in K-pop. And Cravity's most recent works have been good to say the least!

For me, if we go into specific songs, I think I Love You and My Turn are the ones that are both catchy and ones that I would go back to listen to based on the part I remember.

I think Break All The Rules is memorable actually, but it is not one I would go back to listen to just to hear the part I remember. Same for Boy, when I first heard it I remembered the riff and "Be my girl" part but the song gets a little blurry with the last chorus change up. I think I listened to it again in order to watch Treasure's group performance not cause of the song.

I mean yeah I do not think this is a particularly necessary discussion, I am just bored. But I do think a lot of other big 4 groups this doesn't apply to

You can probably tell but I think Treasure is pretty good and Cravity is a little below alright (on the groups, not related to the topic of this thread). I didn't include their other songs in this but I actually could have put Adrenaline and Party Rock as well if it was just based on my opinion of what is middling, but I am not so sure about them compared to other songs (Plus for each of the songs: My Treasure, Jikjin, Hello, Adrenaline, Party Rock, I have heard at least one person highly praise the song except for Jikjin)

Quote from Taehunk

Treasure still don't have a single good song in their discography.

You dislike Going Crazy too, I didn't put that because I thought that song has a universal appeal

Quote from xx-jenn-xx

Despite Monsta X's huge popularity Cravity isn't getting any extra benefit from it, all their hard work and music and growth is their own. You can't sit here and say wow they sound like Monsta X. They have their own unique sound and I consider them Monsta X's lil bro's. They are still a young group with young members, they have the ability to go and experiment with various genre's, sounds, etc. I feel that what Cravity is doing is experimenting. What better way to find out what works and what fits your group than to try different songs, genre's, etc? Even if this was the final result i'd still enjoy them. I love their music, b-sides, and personalities. If you watched their show they are pretty hilarious. I love idols who are funny with great personalities.

Starshit is not a popular company and in fact most fans hate Starshit so acting as if their company is well known and popular is a joke at best. No one likes that company. I'm sure BEYBLADE can agree on that with me.

The point is, just because YOU didn't enjoy it and feel this way, doesn't mean we all do. Clearly the responses here prove that. You don't need to be from a big company for someone to enjoy your music. I've already stated I listen to 35 bg's and most of them are nugu's. My taste is vastly different than a majority of people. And this is the type of music that fits ME and that I would listen to regardless of how popular the company is. I am not a company stan. Yes I would love for my faves to win on music shows, award shows etc, but I'm here because I love their music. You need to remember that.

The Starship thing is news to me, how is Cravity one of the best selling boy groups of all time then?

I agree I feel Cravity was experimenting and more unique with their early title tracks but right now I feel like they have changed into more popular and generic route

I clarified, I am trying to guess what the majority of people's opinion might be, like when someone says songs are GP friendly or not GP friendly that is also guessing based on the sound of the song

Quote from bunnyviolet

idc my turn got crack put into it. I love it ironically and unironically lel.

Honestly what makes these kind of songs work is the catchiness. Which can teeter the line of annoyance and (the good kind) of addiction. For me, I like dance, hard beats, edm type songs, because they create a nice rhythm that I could put in the background and feel energized working to, whether it be art or a work out. So most of these really work for me, but idk that's kind of me. I know there are songs in this type of style that pull it off better and maybe be more interesting even, but you know, I'm not really listening to these songs to pull each element apart under a microscope. I'm interested in how I can vibe to it.

no I agree, actually when it's a song you're anticipating, you probably view it with an evaluative mindset to some degree

But let's say it was not a group you knew and you weren't waiting for it, then you would be less likely to be viewing the song evaluatively, you'd just be listening naturally and if it's interesting it's interesting. So you would not be saying "Oh, this song is so cheap or simple" in your head as you listen to it, you could just like it

I think the cheap/simple thing affects how much you want to replay the song though

Quote from BEYBLADE

well this was obvious

but my thing was i just find this kind of stuff funny.

Find what funny, the thread topic/discussion?