There needs to be a legal upper limit on trainee debts, mother of all evil in kpop, discussing momoland, loona , glam and jbj95

you are so right

Quote from Lulu_Key

I just read that verdict when I was looking into omegax case and omfg I can't believe the judge

Can the members just file for personal bankruptcy to avoid paying that shitty company?

I'm so upset, especially knowing their former company's CEO is allegedly a former lawyer with connections

i think it can't be helped tbh

kpop different from other music genres requires so much budget

its not like some genres where u can just write music in your bedroom and grow loyal fanbase

when these big corporations literally spending fuck a ton on their new groups, mid to nugu agencies have to match that level, if not they will pale in comparison.

well I guess contracts should be looked into and throughly considered before one debuts

also transparency - all contracts and the maths and accounting behind it should be transparent so the trainees know what they are in debt for and how much and once they become idols how much they are earning per week/month etc etc

Quote from jinaland

i think it can't be helped tbh

kpop different from other music genres requires so much budget

its not like some genres where u can just write music in your bedroom and grow loyal fanbase

when these big corporations literally spending fuck a ton on their new groups, mid to nugu agencies have to match that level, if not they will pale in comparison.

While they don't have trainee systems (obviously), Western majors also operate in a similar way (label fronts all the costs of recording and promotion which the artist then pays back through revenue). We're still talking debts in the millions.

I don't know what the situation is today, but even studio time in the 90s could be six figures a day for the more prestigious studios.

Quote from Lulu_Key

But the burden of paying the debts should not be on members

The company will take the Lion share of the profits long after the debt is paid, isn't it fair that they should also pay atleast half of the trainee expenses out of their own pockets?

i don't know how it works but does these companies really make big money? in the end they also give salary to their workers and some part of it also come to financing their next comebacks and stuff, idk it feels like there's nothing much really left, unless we see the detailed financial report or sth its hard to say

Quote from tenfour

While they don't have trainee systems (obviously), Western majors also operate in a similar way (label fronts all the costs of recording and promotion which the artist then pays back through revenue). We're still talking debts in the millions.

I don't know what the situation is today, but even studio time in the 90s could be six figures a day for the more prestigious studios.

yeah but isn't the cost is much less in western pop?, like they dont need to have expensive music videos, they dont need to make multiple budget performance videos, they dont need to spend much money and variety and contents, they don't comeback often like kpop groups. I think its much less budget dependent compared to kpop where its highly dependent on budget.

Quote from jinaland

yeah but isn't the cost is much less in western pop?, like they dont need to have expensive music videos, they dont need to make multiple budget performance videos, they dont need to spend much money and variety and contents, they don't comeback often like kpop groups. I think its much less budget dependent compared to kpop where its highly dependent on budget.

I don't know about now. The industry has shrunk, revenues have fallen and recording costs have become cheaper. But it used to be an awful lot of money. Millions, like I said.

Even now, it's not like kpop music videos are more expensive - stans just have bizarre ideas about budgets (they seem to think sets are very expensive... For some reason).

You have to factor in the payola for radio and the promo machine.

I think JYP revealed the cost for debuting Twice, I can't remember the exact figure, but it was about a million usd? I feel like the cost of launching a debut album in the West is comparable to that.

I've never understood how that's never been challenged. The industry is way too unregulated in so many ways

Quote from Lulu_Key

Look at it this way, the ceos of companies with successful groups are much richer than the individual artists under them. Like 100s time more wealthy.

It's obvious that they are bagging the bigger portion of the profit.

its complicated imo, and companies in this case always will have upper hand as they are the ones who are investing these trainees and expecting return on it not the vice versa.

but thing i definitely agree with is there's really some action should be made cause how they work nonstop but let alone making money ended up in debt? also these companies should stop making groups if they don't have proper planning, management and stuff. Like that loona company, who tf think they spend so much money in predebut stuff and expect they earn that money in this market?

in kwangya theres no debt

Quote from Lulu_Key

But the burden of paying the debts should not be on members

The company will take the Lion share of the profits long after the debt is paid, isn't it fair that they should also pay atleast half of the trainee expenses out of their own pockets?

but the thing about it is that the company IS paying out of their pocket. thats how debt is created. they want a return on investment and if the company doesnt get that money back from the artist's promotions, the artist is expected to return the investment in another way. if you really think about how the kpop industry works, minors and young adults audition to get into a company. once they are accepted they take singing and dancing lessons (depending on the size of the company), have access to dance and recording studios to practice, work with choreographers and continue the training process until they are either selected for a debut group or dropped. all for "free". then the company debuts them. stylists, make up, mv, music production, album production, music show stages (which do cost the company money) ect. again, for "free". the company is always the one investing money, either from out of the pocket of the ceo, or from other investors that believe in their pitch of the next "big" group. most trainees in a midsized company are also provided dormitories already, not to mention a newly debuted group is living in housing provided by the company. all "free". but thats the thing, nothing is free. if you end up in a dead end group that is not successful, no gigs, not enough fans to spend enough for you to even break-even, the company will want their money back one way or another.

the discussion of kpop "debt" is very similar to that of people taking out huge loans for college in the united states. very similar concept of young people essentially being preyed on and sold false promises that cannot always be upheld. not everyone with a college degree will get a good job, not every debuted idol will be successful. i think there is definitely a need for sk to crack down on random companies that pop up, trap a bunch of young men and women in scammy contracts and don't deliver anything. i think young people entering kpop should be provided with lawyers or legal counsel before signing shit. and better yet, minors shouldn't be entering kpop, at least not before 16/17. i think parents should be more involved in these processes and look out for their kids.

It really makes you think. I feel sorry for those who had a solid fandom and good success but still in debt, it feels unfair in a way

bbc sucks at budgeting. mld likes debuting new groups.

Not sure if they enter into a contract, but obviously being a minor you can't, your guardians do.

YG never did trainee debts. They were the first to not do them.

YG did reveal they spend well into 6 figures...hundres of thousands of dollars...on any given trainee now.

And then you also consider YG artists and trainees live in those luxury high-rise buildings next to the Han River in a very posh district of Seoul that YG pays for. They also pay for transportation, security, managers/personal assistants to help the manage daily life.

So it is quite an investment on the company's part.

But YG has always been known to have artist-friendly contracts. The artist always gets a bigger portion of their revenues they produce.

Also they've never been sued, like SM, to get out of so called "slave contracts." Where they lock you up in a contract for a long time and SM gets the bigger portion of sales.

YG contracts are typically 7 years when a trainee signs the artist contract when they debut. Then the renewal contract, like BIGBANG, WINNER and AKMU recently signed and is about to he announced for BLACKPINK, is 5 years.