Posts by Irari

Quote from TwiceKaren

I have a legit question, i am sorry if it comes across like i am trying to start shit or something i just want to understand, why do Tokkis love to blind themselves about the situation NewJeans is in, don't get me wrong i understand wanting to be positive and wanting to be hopeful but sometimes it feels Tokkis are trying to delulu themselves into thinking everything is ok, like let's be honest here both sides are trying to push the narrative, NewJeans isn't as hated as haters claim but i am also sure their support from the general public is starting to change, i don't understand why fans want to act like NewJeans popularity won't be damaged in the slightliest or that every comment that doesn't align with t1hemselves is a bot or paid by hybe or a troll

The Tokkis in my TL and discord groups are aware what potential consequences there are for going against a big company in SK. They are not the first case nor the last.

A lot of the Tokkis want to support NJZ, be it spreading positivity, countering unhinged claims, etc. Furthermore, complex con is a decent gauge on how much support NJZ has. Their merch sold out, people traveled to HK, etc.

Tokkis on my TL are pointing out discrepancies on accounts commenting negative stuff on NJZ--old accounts with no interactions and just hate on NJZ, the copy paste spam coming from new accounts, etc.

Furthermore, HYBE literally has TAG PR which is known to be malicious. The tactics they're using are very similar to the Amber H. situation.

There are people pointing out things against NJZ; however, those comments are far from malicious. They're point out flaws and pitfalls of their actions; not degrading the girls.

Everyone knows NJZ will get negative consequences one way or another. No sane Tokki is denying that (there maybe a loud delusional minority which is normal in fandoms). They will either be sued and pay a hefty fine, barred from music shows, etc if they fumble this case.

Lastly, people are seeing this as artist v company. Most people, who are not corporate stans, will give the artists the benefit of doubt (unless involved in hefty allegations).

They shouldn't. NJZ is far too deep into this situation and have outlined why they don't want to return to ADOR. What's more, the girlies have nothing to return to. Their original group is gone. ADOR is only ADOR in name and shareholders.

So freaking beautiful

Quote from neigl

I totally agree. But did Aespa or Ive not suffer hate? Would other companies act differently in the same position? As much as i dislike Hybe. Without proof that other companies s would act differently, or idols in other companies getin treated differently, i cant accuse them of being worse than the other.

I dont like how the mainstream runs. thats why i dont spend my money on those big companies. but those who criticise those companies are also the fans of their groups, the same people who make these companies as powerful as they are.

These girls did suffer hate, and I believe companies will act similarly to HYBE if they were in this situation. I should correct myself--I despise the KPOP industry.

I'm sure there are KPOP music/artists that are well taken care of and does music out of love for the craft. Just less likely to find them.

Quote from neigl

There where also accusations against LSFM because it was planed to debut NJZ first but than Sakura and Chaewon, who are already known idols, where signed and plans changed.

But if you look at the numbers, sales and all the fans who are happy with how outstanding their artists are. than hybe is absolutly right with pumping out groups like they are a factory. And all those fanwars between the groups have not stoped a single hybe group from being highly successfull.

Also i would not call LSFM, NJZ or Illit products without love for the craft.

There is no reason for Hybe to not do what they do untill Bang Si Hyuk will wake up some morning and think that he doesnt want to make Irari angry anymore.

I supposed it's an agree to disagree on this front.

I question if some fans are fans due to the music/craft/talent or are they fans of the company. Furthermore, I'm not looking at just success but how satisfied are these artists and idols working under hybe? LSFM and Illit, through no fault of their own, are receiving hate (A LOT OF IT) to the point of affecting some of these girlies' mental.

Success does not mean the products are made out of sincerity. Fan happiness does not equate to Idols being happy. Those two things can be heavily attributed to marketing.

All the points you're bringing up are relating to product, numbers, customer satisfaction. Idols are humans. And they are being thrown around like objects in HYBE's factory.

Different vibes, can't compare apples to oranges.

But all of the girlies are gorgeous asf

Quote from neigl

its crazy to see how the opinions from both sides couldnt be more far away from each other. One side say other groups like Illit or Leserafim are direct attempt to sabotaging New Jeans. The other side say its entitlement to think you have the right to be the only group in the company.

I think both of these can be true. I cannot speak for LSFM situation; however, Illit can be adirect attempt to sabotage NJZ. At the same time, it is entitled behavior to believe NJZ should just be the only gg or no should have a similar concept within the company.

The problem is HYBE. If they spaced these debuts out a 3-4 years apart, then I do not see a problem with ILLIT. However, they decided to debut Illit after NJZ and had similarities. Coincidences this big is rare in big business.

I absolutely despise HYBE for this reason: pumping out groups like they're a factory product with no sincerity and love for the craft. All the girlies have insane potential but stinky HYBE sees them as a factory product.

Tati (though I love reading her takes and go FFS out of fondness and love).

But between David and Yama--Yama. I imagine Yama as this meme when he gets heated.

David is a bit more mellow but will let the world know their opinion.

Both Yama and David's takes are both adorable, and they should make out

Quote from uwuwu-98

I have a question for neutral people, if you're a Hybe stan I don't give a fuck about your opinion and bunnies might obviously be biased because we're supporting NJZ, so please I want some more opinions.

What do you think the girls should have done after MHJ's dismissal? I see MANY people saying the girls are just doing this because of MHJ, which is obviously not true, but I want more arguments.

We know (facts, not opinions) that Hybe told them they were going to put them on a 18 months hiatus, which would probably mean to put them in dungeon until 2026, give them a comeback and put them in dungeon again, completely ruining their careers or, in the most positive situation, milking a bit their fans with some tours while trying to keep them away from the focus to make their public presence decrease as the new CEO of Hybe said.

Also, it's not just about MHJ. All the old Ador team were kicked out or left the company. Not just the people handling everything but the creatives, dance team that worked with them etc etc. What people were replacing them? People put by Hybe from the other labels. Who are these people? People that were receiving Hybe's internal documents exposed in the national assembly months ago, saying things such as how they should erase NJ, the same people that made Belift's video targetting them, the same people from SouMu that might have leaked their predebut videos... They were left alone in the company with people that from their point of view were completely impossible to trust.

Is NJZ going to win the legal battle? I don't have any fucking idea. Honestly I thought that with the facts we know they were going to, but it seems the judge doesn't agree with me. Hybe has more power, has more money, has more connections and this is like living in hell. OF COURSE THE GIRLS DIDN'T WANT ALL THIS TO HAPPEN but what were the other options? To stay there in the company full of people that despise them for 5 years with 1 comeback like they did with Fromis_9? And the Fromis girls didn't even have any problem with the company but it's obvious there were many people in Hybe that wanted to bring NJ down.

I have no idea what will be the outcome of all this but as a fan I can't be more proud of the girls risking everything for doing what they think it's right. I'm hoping for a happy ending but even if this ends in a disaster I'm going to support them till the end, and I find really funny that people that shouldn't even care about the girls are everywhere saying how they "ruined their career", soooo easy to say it now. We've had cases in Kpop like TVXQ, Jessica Jung, Loona or Fifty fifty and it seems we've learnt nothing. I really have no idea how the whole Kpop community isn't rooting for the girls right now, I'm not saying everybody should turn into fans but at least hope for the best for them instead of encourage the hate.

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A lot of the Kpop fans are involved in parasocial relationships with their Idols. The Kpop industry relies on this. Some fans are in too deep and have their ideal world built on this toxic foundation (primarily marketed and built by companies). By denying, hating and rejecting, they're able to maintain that fantasy.

Some kpop fans see the companies as an extension of their Idols.

Idols are not seen as human but an object placed on a pedestal. Objects should not have opinions, feelings or irrationality.

To answer the MHJ part: NJZ should leave. I don't care what MHJs character is--the fact is she was the foundation of Ador (or a big percentage of that). Everything else built on top of it relied on MHJ. They kicked the foundation out, now the rest of ADOR is on an unreliable base that was haphazardly plopped in. The staff and artists are now on shaky grounds. They should've given more notice for MHJ replacement to ensure there was no conflict of interest or problems with the new foundation. However, that did not occur. The artists and staff were not involved in the process, just an out of touch Hybe group.

Quote from foreveraespaaa

Why would they perform a new song then go on hiatus i don’t want to start rumors but this has Hybe written all over!

Are they not having a comeback anymore then? I think Pit stop was their Bside for the new comeback! It sounded good

NjZ most likely chose to go on hiatus rather than continue to work with ADOR due to the injunction.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Does anyone in here are actually think that a boycott against HYBE/ADOR would work successfully?

Successfully being that the toxic management system will be eradicated with no negative effect on the idols.

Hell no. Best companies can do is publically act like saints and give statements of how they'll improve. But behind closed doors, there's a puss filled sweltering wound that's infecting whatever organ it's attached too. Then they'll slip up (rinse and repeat).

Companies will participate in corruption to play that game. It's just a matter of lesser evil.

I personally will boycot companies to give myself peace of mind. It's for my own sake and values, nothing else.

In my cohort of friends and professional colleagues (who are either casual or do not know NJZ), the topic of NJZ losing injuction is gaining traction.

Very very interesting since in the USA there is animosity against rich companies. It's especially sensitive right now, and from the casuals or non kpop fans watching, there is support for the girls.

I wonder how it is in SK right now (just from the average K citizen). This case is easily a Artist vs Company--unless the artists did something heinous--most average citizen usually side with artists during this time and age.

Quote from StanGIDLE

The way reddit is treating NJZ is making that place the most toxic forum for kpop. They're even banning users for making positive Lisa threads.

It would be a major loss for kpop if NJZ stop making music. NJZ is refreshing and they got a lot of people into kpop. I have friends that would never listen to kpop, but some of NJZ songs ended up on their playlists. I don't think anybody should be celebrating the worst outcome

Same here. I have punk and rock friends that listen to NJZ while gaming. Anecdotally, I think NJZ challenged the stereotypical opinions some people had for kpop. Just an overall loss, music wise.

While 1st world countries have progressed, labor laws are still subpar (hold true for Asia and US--unsure about EU). So much literature regarding what's a healthy workplace and toxic, yet it's not implemented.

I think this may be the end of my engagement in Kpop unless the artist owns their own company and have freedom (ex: Jennie).

A lot of other users have pointed out that this is common. Even reddit says so and glorifies idol abuse.

Quote from ISaidISaid

Tbh I always thought it was weird how not bowing and not greeting was some how at the forefront of the ill treatment issue. Same with ILLIT plagiarism. Or LSFM debuting first.

Don’t get me wrong all those things create a toxic work environment no doubt about it but those are not things you can go to court with.

For me anyone who wants to leave, should be able to leave. That’s why I side with NJZ. Billion dollar companies shouldn’t be able to “own” ppl this way.

But personally I have never found a single evidence so far presented by NJZ or MHJ to be strong or iron clad enough where mistreatment is self evident. Not saying those things DIDNT happen or are not toxic but that they never felt like as if something that was strong enough to contest iron clad kpop contracts.

We already saw this entire thing play out when escape squad left EXO. Like it was literally this exact same thing that NJZ is arguing with. And it wasn’t enough. In their case they even brought up like injuries and over working and all that and it still wasn’t enough.

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Individually, I can see how an outsider might see these problems as small. I have a bit of experience with workplace psychology, and we often discuss how the accumulation of little slights create the worst work environment (not being greeted, talked behind someone's back, backhanded comments, being singled out, not properly crediting workers, downplaying achievements).

You're right, it is toxic. Unfortunately, HR often zooms into these individual things not realizing the bigger picture. A lot of workplace abuse include gaslighting, and a lot of the current population find this to be "normal", not realizing it is detrimental to their mental health which in turns lowers productivity and physical health.

Interesting enough, the newer generation are aware of this and are starting to push back.

If the judge is older, these slights will most likely be seen as a norm.

This is all just PR for NJZ comeback--what better marketing is there than the SK courts?

I do not understand injunctions. How does it affect the cases moving forward?

All I know, while a contract is legally binding, they cannot force anyone to work. Does anyone have a link to NJZ translated contract?

I do not understand injunctions. How does it affect the cases moving forward?

All I know, while a contract is legally binding, they cannot force anyone to work. Does anyone have a link to NJZ translated contract?

ITZY, they're insane.

I don't like the heavy use of autotune, so imma wait for a band version or something.