Posts by Irari

    Ultimately, Kpop is considered to be on the same level as Kids Music by South Koreans, largely due to Kpop Companies targeting teens and Koreans saying they grow out of it by College.


    So it make sense that a Company would want to debut a person near the same age group as the fans they are marketing toward.

    That does make sense why they would want to debut kids the same age (if their target are kids). I'm surprised that Kpop is considered on the same level as Kids Music because some Kpop songs are not kid friendly.


    Then again in the US, there are a lot of non-kid friendly songs targeted towards kids.

    Like any other human, she makes mistakes and has major flaws. But those mistakes are amplified due to the spotlight she's under. And as an artist myself, in literature, I can empathize with the obsessiveness and "taking all the credit" flaw.


    And I think the bad and good judgements are lame. People are just doing what they think works in their world and given their situation.


    I feel the same about Hybe as well.


    But I'd rather see Hybe/BSH and MHJ duke it out in one go. I despise CEOs that are MIA when shit happens in their company. So props on MHJ for being there.


    All I hope is this is over and we know what happens to NJs.

    I didn't consider this perspective. Funnily enough, I grew up in one of those asian countries where education is treated similarly (it's rough). I can definitely see why some choose to try their luck being a kpop idol.


    Now that you mention it, it really can come down to different cultures and perspectives. Western world is a lot "free" and "lax" when it comes to child play. However, Asian countries are very different (which was a culture shock to me in the US).


    I do hope that children have more freedom and options since research has shown play is very important. But then again, child development research papers are often WEIRD (data focused on the western world).

    then I would do everything in my power to show the stats and data of the "average" kpop idol


    and the if need me fly them to SK to meet with nugu groups and so forth - for every BTS/EXO/BP/Twice etc there are hundreds and thousands of not just less successful but actually not successful groups


    also try to get them into a mid-tier or better company (preferably big4) but mid tier at least

    That's fair! I really like this approach!

    if you can't afford a lawyer - you can't afford to give up seven years of your life (plus trainee years) under a potential slave contract.

    I agree with your points and perspective! I especially love the comment you made about lawyers.

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    I personally have two kids and I would never ever let them be a kpop trainee let alone a debutee and would do everything in my power to dissuade them but I also wouldn't prevent others from wanting to debut as a minor if they so choose

    Out of curiosity, if you can't dissuade your kid from becoming a trainee, what would you do?

    I want to hear the opinions of Kpop fans when it comes to minors debuting in the industry. I'm specifically talking about Kpop Idols.


    During journal club at the university I work and research at, we were discussing child actors and how this influences their development. We've seen films where child actors need to act in violent scenes (sexual violence, war reenactments, abusive situations, etc). It wasn't the main topic; however, we brought it up because no one in our team could find a journal or article that studies this. There have been a few literature analysis, but no research.


    There's a rise of minors debuting for example, Burvey (ages 12-14 years old). And a part of me is concerned, and the other fascinated. I dug around some more and found this paper: https://koreascience.or.kr/article/JAKO201320361632886.page


    Kim, B., Park, J., Hwang, J.-W., Yoo, H.-J., Kwack, Y.-S., & Bahn, G. H. (2013). How Does the Movie Affect Child Actors (Actresses) on Piaget’s Cognitive Developmental Theory? Soa--Chʻŏngsonyŏn Chŏngsin Ŭihak = Journal of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, 24(2), 65–70. https://doi.org/10.5765/jkacap.2013.24.2.65


    One of the few literature analysis we found was from Korea (and almost the only article that's recent).


    In the article, they discussed Piaget's and Erickson's theory:


    Children start their training at a very young age which can impact their development. Now children are debuting during their adolescence where they exaggerate their thoughts and often look at themselves under constant scrutiny. Ahyeon for example, the public has been criticizing her (whether that criticism is valid or not is irrelevant). If internally adolescents are criticizing themselves, and their external world is doing the same: what happens to the adolescent?


    And another question arises:

    -Why is there a big push back against minors in Kpop but not in the acting/entertainment industry?


    As for my own thoughts:


    I do believe minors can debut in the industry. HOWEVER. THIS IS THE BIG HOWEVER. Their company needs to be good and knowledgeable. The company should not be chasing money or immediate profit. The company should have great working conditions. The company should have protocol set in place in place to protect their minor idols if the public criticizes these minors to the point of it affecting their mental health.


    The reason why I believe minors can debut is emotional--not logical or based on research. If you have a kid who has a dream, and a dream they chase and are willing to give their all to, it's difficult not to support it despite knowing how the industry is. If a teen/kid wants something, they will find a way to get it (this is a well known fact). So rather than shun that dream, I'd rather nurture it and educate them. I'd rather build them a good foundation and help them navigate that dream when the opportunity arises.

    I'm very iffy about Minors debuting. I think it takes an extremely good and ethical company for me to be okay with debuting minors. And a company that isn't money hungry.


    But the conditions most minor idols are put under is horrendous. Male or female, it doesnt matter. SK needs to have additional laws to protect minors if they plan on letting minors debut

    "Lastly, the popular culture and arts industry, especially our industry for popular singers, has been conducted under the principle of 'investment first, regret later' from the past to the present. Since the company has invested first, it cannot help but be the weaker party of the exclusive contract. In particular, the biggest task for companies that have raised new artists through investment is to protect the artists as much as possible, maintain the contract well, and generate profits until they generate profits greater than the investment amount. In other words, in the event of a dispute between various artists and their agencies, they have no choice but to thoroughly hope for the maintenance and preservation of the exclusive contract as the '乙' position. However, the current law does not take any measures that take into account the company's position. In particular, in cases where a contract is maliciously terminated, there is no measure that can be taken to maintain the contract other than ultimately claiming damages. In this regard, the current approach of New Jeans can be said to be a very malicious method that can shake the foundation of our popular culture and arts industry."


    :pepe-clown-gear: :pepe-clown-gear::pepe-clown-gear::pepe-clown-gear::pepe-clown-gear::pepe-clown-gear::pepe-clown-gear::pepe-clown-gear::pepe-clown-gear::pepe-clown-gear:

    If the information in earlier comments are accurate, didnt NJ pay off whatever Ador/Hybe invested? Didn't they give the company more than the initial investement + other brand deals that were allegedly given to other groups/sections of the company?

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    protect the artists as much as possible, maintain the contract well

    Hmmmm.

    https://mydaily.co.kr/page/view/2024120308014696454


    Guess they're on HYBE's side, The Korea Management Association tells New Jeans to withdraw their position and keep in contact with current ADOR CEO Kim Ju Young

    Of course they'll side with Hybe/Ador.


    Korea Management Association(KMA) | LinkedIn
    Korea Management Association(KMA) | 19 followers on LinkedIn. 대한민국 No.1 지식서비스기관 | Founded in 1962 by private initiatives, Korea Management Association is an…
    www.linkedin.com


    From their LinkedIn

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    KMA is dedicated to become the most reliable partner for sustainable growth of Koreans and Korean companies for next centennial years. KMA will make every effort to provide quality service to our clients to strive uncertainty and rise over turbulent times. KMA pledges to provide the highest value through a combination of our own creativity, excellence and knowledge for Korean companies to stand out in global competition.


    From https://en.namu.wiki/w/%ED%95%…B%A5%A0%ED%98%91%ED%9A%8C


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    A non-profit corporation in Korea that engages in management consulting, including diagnostic guidance, education, research, and investigation activities for overall corporate and public sector management

    This Association has the best interest of corporations in mind.

    but it doesn't matter what we think - you can apply all the critical thinking skills you want and come to a determination but ultimately in this case it will be the courts who decide the outcome

    What we think matters. If everyone fully relies on any authority figure without questioning or thinking, people will end up as sheeps. As for this case, personal and public opinions do matter.


    Courts don't just take into account the evidence and what's presented before them, but they also take into account the consequences of deeming something right or wrong and whether person A or B is at fault.


    The public's ideas can influence the opinion of the court. And the public's ideas is made out of collective opinions from individuals.


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    two people witnessing or partaking in the exact same conversation may have complete differing interpretations as to what was said

    You're right, this can occur. But anyone who partakes in a conversation, especially in bussiness, 99% of the time consider the context of the conversation and cultural background. And any healthy and good conversation most likely have the participants asking questions and clarifying questions. The same goes for any contract.


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    when it hits the courts - there are things alike whether such information is admissible at all or whether it is hearsay or the credibility of the witness just to name a few things - all that information gets challenged in court which we as ordinary citizens never see or hear.




    I'm not saying a court or judge is perfect however it seems to be the best system that we have

    That is a barrier when it comes to information gathering. However, we as the public should still look at the data we have at hand to make our own decision. Perhaps there wasn't new evidence shown in court and evidence was thrown out despite it true but due to paperwork or improper filing, they can't use it. Are we going to say that the evidence doesn't exist and the public shouldn't examine it?


    Courts and judges are the best system we have but the best is sometimes corrupt. Thus it's critical to form your own opinion despite what any person says.


    Also with OJ Simpson, we can say things publicly. His case is discussed in college courses and a class can discuss opinions, concerns and flaws in the proceedings. People on the streets are allowed to discuss it. People can discuss it on Media as well. Unless you're in a society that doesn't allow the examination of authortiy figures and their decisions.

    They ruined my ults career after she exposed her company.

    I'll never source them and always side against who's blatantly paying them to shill

    These people are miserable. No amount of money they get can fix their misery. They could use this energy to improve themselves and contribute to something. But nah, why do that when you can just stalk people and write glorified gossip?


    I'm so infuriated that people actually source gossip sites.

    That is gross and disturbing. It's one thing having fake experts on news talk. But stalking? Using "evidence" obtained illegally? It's basically a gossip paper, no? I've seen international Kpop fans referencing Dispatch, and I assumed it was like some news site. But it's just a gossip paper?


    Do people not check who is writing this and their credentials? Or hell, how they're getting these information?


    [단독] "뉴진스 탈출을 빌드업했다"…민희진, 거짓말의 실체
    [Dispatch=김지호·박혜진기자] ① 결론부터 말했다."어도어는 뉴진스를 보호할 의지도 능력도 없다."새... [더보기]
    www.dispatch.co.kr


    That's the article I believe, and it's just pictures and screenshots. Are people not suspicious on the validity of these claims or if they're edited or not?


    Man, that's gross. But people that consume gossip papers and reference it as "proof" or the truth are something.


    SIGHHHH.


    I hate paparazzis and whatever Dispatch is. It should be illegal.

    history is written by the victors and they will dictate the narrative when it eventually happens

    A part of me disagrees with this. a few years ago, with information scarce and difficult to access, I can wholeheartedly agree.


    Now information is available, albeit people will have to sift through misinformation using their critical thinking skills. People who are informed and have the skills can still make educated opinions on the situation at hand.


    Thus, I think being a victor doesn't dictate wether you are right or wrong. The case of OJ simpson is an extreme example (he was acquitted and came out as the victor, but everyone believed otherwise and knew he was not innocent).

    • Reshaping Kpop's Sound: I think NJs reshaped the sound Kpop had via introducing and popularizing nostalgia themed songs and tiktok-esque songs. I'm sure other groups have done it before; however, NJ nailed the formula that made it popular and appealing to many.


    • Production: NJ's production (MV/videos/choroes) isn't cheap. However they make it look effortless and fun--it's not overly dark nor bright, but rather playful. I'm seeing more and more of it, and I'm excited.


    • Records Being Broken: NJ broke a lot of records as a Rookie GG. That itself is a big achievement. This most likely shifted expectations in the industry and perhaps sat the bar higher for many new debuts. People will use NJ to compare another group's popularity (for better or for worst) because NJ's success is the new standard/ideal. We are seeing NJ getting brought up in arguments or debates about popularity. Non fans/antis try to drag NJ into a conversation because a part of it is that NJ is the new standard that everyone uses to measure success of a debut/group.


    • Trendsetting: NJ played a role in popularizing Y2K in Korea for the next generation.


    • Competition: NJ made competition when it was quiet. They created a rift that threatened and inspired many companies to produce a new group to either challenge or dethrone NJ.


    • Speaking out about their position: Self explanatory with all the things going around. They really went against the cultural grain. A bunch of female idols speaking out against a company that is predominantly male in a capitalistic, conservative and male dominated country. I'm sorry, but that takes balls of steel.

    -many NJ fans are coming from non kpop fans who didnt even know hybe exist or giving shit about BTS siblings.

    That's me. I've heard about BTS (but didn't really care). And the only other two groups I've ever known was EXO and Girl's Generation (though I've heard a few songs from BP and 2NE1, didn't know nor care about the groups).


    Then NJs popped up Ditto performance and got enamored by how they were having fun on stage. Boom--I'm now an Aespa, Kiss of Life, IVE and Unit casual!