Posts by TheBotter

Quote from whig

reminds me of

Lol like bruh imagine caring about licking boots for a posse dedicated to catering to every whims of a soft manchild with no backbone whatsoever 😂

And I don’t care about this discussion or coming up with any explanation, i was just clarifying what i read in simpler terms, that’s all, no need to get all defensive

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It's not really defensive, in fact I answered your question. No, I think it's possible that some companies are inflating sales with both legal and above board tactics so this massively kicks up sales and also it's just as likely several companies are using illegal tactics to boost sales and falsify the appearance of spending fan power.

Also if you don't want to be a 'bootlicker' or cater the a posse of spineless man-children why do you seemingly care enough about said same posse to continually make account after account and consistently return to a place inhabited by such folk?

Quote from loneranger1

Fansites Bulk buying

Period

I suspect companies and distributors work with these sites to give bottom dollar prices. I've seen fansites claiming purchases of 500+k in 1 setting. Like it believable to me that we see little to no paper trail for 90% of groups doing this and they in silence gather 800+k every few months.

I suspect companies provide these fansites with below sub retail prices. Afterall the appearance of massive selling power moves the needle these days more than actual profit.

The likes not matching up at all. JYPE usually only run ads either on the 2nd day or on occasion in the last 12 hrs of D1.

It's pretty obvious this has been boosted quite heavily from adverts, which is fine, but judging by the low likes(almost nugu level) and the 14k comments I would be shocked if it pulled more than 5m views.

So Nmixx returned with what should have been their biggest comeback to date. It was teased as per...nothing exciting from JYPE you know how it is...but this time they got a pre-release single to build hype which has been a bit middling so far.

Anyway as 4th gen groups seemingly sore to new heights with each and every comeback JYPE seems to be struggling to catch on with Nmixx compared to SM and HYBE's offerings.

It only charted on 1 daily 100 in Korea, being Bug's and fairly low on that chart.

They also failed to enter Spotify Global 200, Japan, USA or places like Thailand/Indo Spotify 200.

It placed at 165 with 4.6k streams in Korean Spotify.

The MV got around 21 million views, tho the vast majority of these were likely ad boosted since they pulled a scant 210k likes and around 14k comments in that period.

The had high sales, around about 720k.

For me these numbers are pretty poor, opinions? It's difficult to imagine JYP Entertainment struggling to keep any form of grip on Korea with any of their acts, but their main future group being Nmixx doing this poorly across the board...it troublesome.

Quote from thebadguy

Jennie could be some sidekick in flop hollywood movies or stuff i guess

I think Jennie will be renewing. After her brief attempt at a western push it's further just confirmed that's she's a nobody without Blackpink and YGE

Quote from chilltime

i'd argue that popular groups find it much easier to sell out concerts because they have a lot of casual fans. but u can count these groups with ur 1 hand. there's not a lot. the majority depend on their own fanbase to pull through.

Yes, some million sellers are struggling in theaters so it's like even the wider Kpop community doesn't want to see them when we already know thousands of fans attend concerts of groups they dont bias every year around the world...

Yet 1m in a week, peice of cake 2k tickets sold in 2 months is giving them trouble?

Quote from BEG4DAWIN

in my town, G-Idle is playing in the same arena as Itzy did.

capacity is around 5K, I would say a bit more than a local club.

BP and Twice played in a 20K arena, while BTS played in a 65K stadium.

What's your opinion on that as a local?

Quote from Beesknees

The way you guys simplify the correlation between album sales and touring will never not crack me up.

Unless you can track how much a group sells in each specific country and where it’s coming from complaining about sales not matching touring is a fruitless task. You need to understand the distribution of the fans buying albums

The barrier to attending a tour is so much larger than that of buying an album as well. As soon as distribution/availability got better and therefore prices came down, the barriers to purchasing an album decreased and album sales shot up.

They’re not like for like to the extent they should match.

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This is true to an extent, but also ignores an easier barrier than even buying albums. Streaming music or videos which I touched on several times. We've seen groups increase their sales 2-3 times what they were selling 1-2 years ago yet other metrics beyond touring are stagnant or even going down for certain groups yet they have exploded in sales...what would be the assumption for this? You can't say it's easier to buy 20 albums than it is to say...like an MV, give an SNS engagement, buy a digital song, stream on a premium services, etc.

Quote from chilltime

my two cents based on my limited knowledge.

touring is very very different. Getting an arena is tougher than u might expect. It needs to be approved by the arena owners and they need a certain level of stature and connections to book an arena.

That's why if rookie groups are not doing arenas, it means they need confirmation that they can sell out theatres so they can scale it up and go to arenas for next tour. After that, it will be stadiums.

It's a process. It's all about building the CV/reputation in a new country. Especially the west who doesn't really know kpop except a few groups.

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That's part true, indeed. You do need an established name somewhat to make connections. But also if you have a reputable company that has worked with those same venues, organizers, etc in the past I don't think it's an issue. Especially since most major venues have contracts with promoters like Live Nation so it's very easy fr established companies to make those shows happen if they think the demand is present.

Quote from monamia

I’ve been keeping tabs mainly on girl groups and I’m very curious to see the tour numbers of 4th gen specifically LSFM, Aespa, IVE, GIDLE and NJ.

All of them are million sellers and will be or already touring. Will they pull arrivals like TWICE and BLKPINK? Will the sales actually translate to attendance?

I’ve seen a lot of sneak diss of people saying it’s not translating into actual people showing up.

Then you have groups like XG pulling this.

Not that this is a tour but still impressive.

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I wish there was a thread to keep up with tours.

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It's hard to say, but to put things in perspective the US leg of both G-idle and Aespa's tour is smaller than that of Mamamoo's recent trip to the states. It'll be very interesting to see if LSF, NJ's, IVE, etc will be restricted to smaller venues or if they will book stops at stadiums, domes or Arena's over then next couple of years.

But some 4th gen GG's are already at the same age Twice and BP were when they both sold over 400k tickets in less than a year period.

Quote from Flowercrew

Just spill already, op

That will only ever create fanwars and defensive attitudes and also inspire revenge negging...it's not a good way to have a conversation when the same thing can be achieved without dropping names and shaming groups over theories and opinions.

Quote from unbannBLACPINK

im not trying to defend kpop inflated numbers, but lets look at this mathematically

say a group sold 1.5 million albums

like you said, its most likely actually 500k people buying at best ( going from people buying 1 album to people buying 100 )

i dont have exact figures, this number could be even lower

now those 500k people are spread across thousands, maybe tens of thousands of kilometres

so the people actually geographically suited to attend a concert might be significantly smaller than that number

hell i'd bet its close to 10k but to give you a HUGE benefit of the doubt lets say that number is 50k

out of those 50k, not all are part of those bulk buyers, and have tons of money lying around

and if you think ALL are mass buyers, then the actual number of buyers goes down by a ton, so this final number of people who can actually afford to attend the concert is even lower

doesnt it make sense they cant fill concert halls even with million sales ?

not to mention, maybe everyone who buys an album doesnt even give a shit about seeing idols in person

its not like watching a professional athlete who's a master of his craft giving inhuman performances

its saying very average skilled extremely good looking people who you cant even see up close

of course all of this is probabilities

if you have exact figures or more accurate guesses, feel free to correct me

im actually more surprised groups like blackpink and twice can fill domes

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I think that's being very generous and ignoring several factors. Such as commonalty. Groups blow up in sales as K-pop globalises, it goes global by blowing up in several local markets. We've seen the rise of Kpop in Japan, SEA, China and the US over the last say 5 years and similar we've seen it grow in Europe, India and Latam too.

It's getting bigger by growing in local markets. We see a bunch of groups selling and touring perfectly fine in these markets and having growth in engagements, streams, sales on local charts in these areas yet we're also seeing several groups trash certain groups sales yet the lag behind severely in every other area.

Cerain groups can sell 1m albums in a week but struggle to pass 300k likes on their MV in the first day or 2...what they can buy 100 copies of a 25 buck album but can't stream on Spotify, view the MV or buy the song on their local charts...eyt others aren't having this issue?

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

There is a specific group I have such opinions about where their sales comes from

I have a theory about their sales, but I need to see them to comeback again to either confirm my theory or just scratch it from my mind

I would be interested in seeing that whenever they comeback again. I think their is an interesting and nuanced conversation to be had about that current state of Kpop sales and for the first time in my 7-8 years of being interested and following the industry it's the only time I've been eager for a full, open and transparent investigation.

Also, yeah I forgot about Exo. I mean they basically have been off for a while and really missed the whole explosion of sales thing so I don't really see them as included or having out of the ordinary sales to be honest.

Quote from WhyKnock

Worth almost the same as Lee Jieun's new condo

Can she wear it around her neck?

Quote from Lamttya

Not really. We all know it's mostly mass buying and not just that but companies artificially inflating with ridiculously low prices and amount of versions. Add to that many groups only have fans in a particular country/es and they will struggle to sell tickets

I can see that is a booster for some of the sales, sure. We all see the tactics of selling albums in bulk to group orders for bottom dollar prices, hundreds of PC's, digipacks, etc but it's a stretch too far for me to assume these have fans who are willing to buy what would have to be hundreds, if not thousands, of copies each to make those numbers work.

Also these fans aren't in the US, EU, Latam, SEA..? Hell some of these groups struggle in Korea and Japan...like...it's a stretch for me.

Quote from Jasmine_Waters

Is she even an album seller?

I didn't see the part about Ed, sorry missed it. This is like the old saying all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs. You can do massive payola and still have organic success and a huge fanbase that's as true as the opposite is. Same for Kpop several groups have fantastic sales but tours that, imho, match up fairly well.

I feel BTS, BlackPink, Twice, etc all match up well across their current numbers. I feel 17 does too, they make up the majority of their sales in EA and have a noticeably huge fandom in Japan, China and Korea. Several other groups too match up perfectly well but others just don't make sense at all..

Quote from Minazuki

It's hard to match touring and sales, cause usually groups go where their agency want them to go or where they can go, not everywhere they have huge demand.

I will use aespa as an example, cause they are touring right now. They just sold 2M, but +1,1+1,2M alone is from China. A country they can't tour not matter how big they are.

They are touring in small venues in US despite being million sellers. But they sold like 40k first week on US and most likely will sell more than 40k (i suppose) tickets there, so you can't say It's not matching, just because It's not matching their overall sales.

Well we see a lot of groups selling well in China, in fact a huge dump of sales goes to China every year and reallyy only a few groups like big Bang and BlackPink have ever had mainstream success in that country in a way yet we're seeing their numbers matched or beaten by groups that haven't ever had a lot of chart success in that country.

A lot of groups, not Aespa specifically, could also tour China territories but skip it. Look at BP toured Taiwan and Hong Kong recently and did big numbers. Several Chinese territories that are still bookable have arena's from 5k up to 40+ k yet seemingly groups are skipping these.

2017 K-pop was much better than shitty 2023 K-pop so who's suprised?

Quote from Minazuki

you are back

Nope.

Quote from whig

basically your whole essay was to allude to the logical conclusion of companies possibly doing sajaegi to boost sales numbers, is that it?

I wonder how long it will take for you to be banned again.

No and yes, would you have other explanations?