Posts by bbgc

Quote from 134340Moonchild

Even with IU, where are the Korean public who are saying that IU is overrated and this “ Jane doe” is the next IU. IU’s attendance at the Cannes festival was widely covered and praised in SK. If it had been ignored while the SK media was praising some lesser known celebrity attending a local acting festival, it wouldn’t be called out? SK is weird about BTS.

Missed this point about IU.

Are you seriously suggesting that BTS does not have enough media coverage in SK? Naver and google data says otherwise.

But more important is government policy and the only time IU was in news, was when she become the model for Soju in 2015, instead of making any special exemptions, that resulted in a law that models should be at least 24, - not at all in favour of her, just that law making takes time, this took till 2019 and she scrapped through.

In that sense, the govt. the public weren't favouring her either.

So I don't think BTS is specifically being treated badly in SK. There is no reason to do so.

Quote from Kreatin

I wonder how many different "Longest model of x brand" she can claim when she retires..

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So which is the longest so far.

Chamiseul?

Binggrae Banana milk?

Quote from Kreatin

I dont really see it, seems like a reach to say korean media ignores bts because of one person said something?

Wasnt it for BTS that 50+ something journalists flew over to usa before the summer, for the concerts and grammy nominations? The same group that had national tv live send the grammys with commentary in the middle of the night for the first time in history when before that most koreans didnt even now what a grammy was?

Anyway, that there might be somewhat less of an interest when they are nominated for the xth time is just natural.

I don't get Wk and others, ranting about how Koreans don't treat K-pop or BTS better,

#1. It is not necessarily true - you have given an example.

#2. It need not be so - every society has a different valuation of celebrities and how they should be treated, Koreans can make their own choices.

#3. They demand parity for Kpop with other fields like sports, classical music, where achievers are given exemptions. Fair enough, but again do Koreans value Kpop as much as other fields? That also is upto SK, i-fans can only wish.,

In fact, increasingly people are demanding that celebrities should not be treated any different, But i-fans like these, are going against the general trend. Weird.

Quote from 134340Moonchild

You pretty much ignored everything I wrote and argued with stuff that you thought I said. My only problem with military exemption in regards to BTS was that anyone arguing that BTS doesn’t deserve it is wrong for so many reasons. My opinion about military exemptions in general is that there shouldn’t be any, not even for women. Only medical/physical exemptions (and only for the truly impaired not for having different eye prescriptions). BTS would never leave SK and I wouldn’t want them to either. I just think that the SK media bias should be investigated. All the media collusions should be exposed. BTS does deserve better from SK considering how hard they promoted K culture.

Maybe

And my point remains, that it is for Koreans to decide by means of their democratic setup. Our opinions are irrelevant.

Only other option is for BTS' to quit Korea - that at least is more feasible to expect, than expect an entire country to follow a strangers opinion.

Media collusions/bias are the norm in pretty much every liberal country. And collusions about an entertainment act - however popular, is insignificant compared to political or corporate collusion. But sure.. investigate away.

BTS deserving better from SK - is simply fan-speak.

Quote from Alex_Murphy

Two questions. Both irrelevant. That's vintage WhyKnock if you ask me.

You don't need to sell 5 million or stadium tours in order to represent something of value.

Ok but BTS won't last forever. Therefore it's in the industry's best interest to push and promote itself beyond BTS and if possible use BTS as a springboard when it makes sense. If it doesn't lead nowhere, so be it! At least they tried.

Like, the SK cinema industy is not gonna stop making movies and selling internationally just because no films will likely replicate Parasite's success. "Guys it's over, let's just give up. We're past our prime. Let's go to the countryside and grow beetroots". That's not how it works.

SK has become a force to be reckoned with globally, and they obviously intend to retain their spot for the longest time possuble. It's not just about BTS, it's not just about Kpop. Today SK is also movies (Parasite, Train to Busan) and TV shows (Squid Game), and these products reach beyond the scope of Armys and kpop stans.

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Correct,

SK has Samsung, LG, Hyundai, POSCO - no entertainment act is ever going to match these behemoths.

Fans naturally get upset, when their faves aren't felicitated enough, but they should have some sense of proportion about these things.

BTS or even Kpop is not an existential issue or even a critical issue that define the SK society.

Quote from 134340Moonchild

The fact that you don’t know the difference between being in a active war and a cease fire is troubling. If SK was in a war right now, there would be no exemptions and kpop wouldn’t be on anyone’s mind. Conflating the Vietnam war with the current situation between SK and NJ is just deceptive. HYBE sucks at a lot so no argument from me about that. I think you are missing my point. My point has always been that the SK media undermines BTS and the public buys their narrative. The question is why the media is doing that and that should be investigated. Unfortunately the SK public will never demand that because they believe what the SK media tells them, at least in regards to BTS/ kpop.

That you think Vietnam war was more critical to US 1000s of miles away and Korean "cease fire" depending on Kim's mood swings is not to SK, sitting few hundred miles away...

No they are not comparable.. SK is in far greater threat from NK even today, than US ever was from Vietnam.

Look I get your argument,

if SK can give exemptions to achievers in other fields, then they can do so for K-pop as well. True, I don't disagree.

But my opinion or yours means nothing, SK is a democratic country and apparently there is not enough support for including Kpop in fields worthy of exemptions.

Whether that is due to media or politicians, or simply that people don't care that much about Kpop - that is all speculative.

Frankly it is kind of cheap to consider entertainment as something worth indoctrination, when there are far more critical and existential issues for any country including SK. A set of celebrities getting a privilege, should not/ought not to be a top concern for any society.

That I say not just for SK, K-pop and BTS, but all cases.

In any case, SK can make their own decisions.

Maybe ARMY like you should convince BTS to migrate away from SK. Like Shakira did from Colombia.

Quote from 134340Moonchild

The US was at war, way different than SK. Why would anyone be exempted during a war? There won’t be any exemptions when SK is in a war either. All those athletes and classical musicians will be conscripted. SK people are greatly influenced by the SK media and the media has undermined BTS since the beginning. The government has tried ( however halfhearted) to fight for BTS because only they understand the impact of BTS. The govt is just too cowardly to go against the media/ public. That is the big difference. The media in most countries aren’t that invested in entertainment. They aren’t colluding with entertainment companies to undermine their competitors. The media in most countries would be praising a group like BTS because the media’s goal is to increase the country’s profile, especially among the global community. Look at Shakira, her country is proud of her when she started making waves in the US.

S.Korea is still at war, that is why they conscriptions. In fact they are in a worse situation than the US in Ali's time - because they don't know when and how Kim might hit, so have to be constantly alert.

That you don't know this. kind of makes your other opinions dicey.

Of course the govt. should be afraid of the public - at the end of the day BTS is just 7 votes.

Media is always available for purchase, by politicians or corporates - maybe Hybe sucks at that.

Again, being proud at a citizen being popular elsewhere has rarely translated to benefits at home. Shakira is fighting tax fraud in Spain, her popularity in US gives her no advantage at all.

She already has dumped Colombia.. maybe BTS should have done that.

I already did say SK does better than other countries, giving exemptions.. and they can extend it for K-pop also, with BTS being beneficiaries.. but that should be done for the field and not individual cases.

And that needs popular support or at least little objection from the people.

If people are objecting to that.. whether you call them incels or not .. it is a democratic country and they get to decide.

Even if other countries are swayed by external validations, it does not mean Koreans have to follow suit, they can and have their own opinions and values.

You are free to dislike that, but that means nothing to them.

Quote from redcurtain

in retrospect she probably had the biggest song of the year though (domestically)

Leon?

Yes, in that she did defeat GD+Taeyang and also YJS

Quote from WhyKnock

Of course they screwed up royally. The short term envy of the incels ruined it

They are evil

I have pointed out that it was wrong for Koreans to treat BTS and Lee Jieun in the same league for many, many years as well.

WhyKnock got his soul-mate for korea bashing in 134340Moonchild

You guys are crazy to think people should form their preferences in music or life - based on what impact their support/lack of support will have on markets, politics or sociological dynamics etc.,,

No Korean is thinking - "Ooh BTS is a rare non-Western act to succeed globally in recent centuries, so I should support them, whether or not, I personally like the music"

Same applies for other nations too - More non-Americans visit Niagara falls than Americans do.

More Yoga schools exist, Yoga is much larger a market - in the West than in India, where the Govt like Korean govt is trying hard to push yoga internationally as Indian soft power.

No India is going to take up Yoga, so that Yoga gets a great push in the world.

Quote from WhyKnock

It was when they attained their biggest popularity

If they were in the military back then they would have been forgotten by now while Lee JIeun would have run around like a wild bull in a bull ring

2020 indeed was their peak and among all other unfortunate things, Covid prevented them from capitalizing on that peak.

In the bullring that is the digital charts of Korea, that particular cow is supreme - BTS or not, Covid or not, exemption of not.

Quote from 134340Moonchild

I find it ironic the the SK government funded Hallyu specifically to push their soft power to emulate the soft power of the US. Then the SK media and locals undermine the pinnacle of this soft power goal and even the current SK government went along with it. Yes the locals take it for granted but in most countries they would be proud to have BTS. Whether the GP cared about something or not, they were always proud to hear about a citizen doing well in that field. They certainly never cried about how someone else deserved the accolades or that the person currently on top is going to be replaced. If they don’t care about it, they are just proud and want them to keep succeeding. SK is doing something else. They undermine BTS and I find that weird.

The government and the people are two different things.

And no, most countries would behave in the same way - they sure like hearing their country or countrymen praised by others, but that does not mean they are going to be overly bothered about that object of praise..

if you think other countries have done it differently, then please give examples.

In fact, SK is somewhat different that it at least has provisions to give exemptions to celebrities with some achievement, even if not to Kpop. Others don't even any such provision.

US for example, did not spare Muhammed Ali from conscription to Vietnam. And believe me, Ali is as big as it gets. Of course these are multi factored, and Ali had racial issues against him. But still.

Quote from redcurtain

she has a strong claim to 2015 too tbh lol

Among females/GGs - yes. But overall Bigbang absolutely dominated 2015.

Frankly, I don't think IU needs to be matched only with women or soloists.

Even by overall rankings - 2011, 2014, 2017 and 2021 - she dominated the charts.

And in 2015, 2020 - 2nd to Bigbang and BTS.

Here is a picture of Gaon digitals top 100 most consumed each year for the top 5 - GGs, BGs and Non-Groups. 2010-2021

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You all should invite WhyKnock to these threads.

He strongly believes that K-O-R-E-A-N-S don't deserve to have K-pop and BTS should have emigrated out from their ungrateful country.

Craziness need to be united.

IMO, I rather not speak on behalf of Koreans.

They apparently are not that obsessed with Kpop or BTS, as i-fans are and do take Kpop for granted.

That is understandable, the locals always take their cultural expressions - food, art, architecture etc., for granted, while outsiders can get obsessive.

As much applies to Koreans as it does globally.

Quote from nevermindmejin

BTS shaking the status quo from day 1. It would be interesting to see how Korea react if BTS wins a Grammy while Jin is serving.

Legally, I don't know.

But otherwise, all prizes to BTS now are affirmations than achievements.

Quote from WhyKnock

She saw Sung Dongil, a supporting actor who are in many shows, three times during the Moon Lovers but she still sent gifts to him , and 4 years later she saw him in House in Wheels and he remembered that.

She knows you never know what you will meet in your life later so she made no mistakes on treating older figures.

Not that she ignores the younger folk.

Like the child actress Kim Minseo(?) from the ODG interview got coffee truck from IU..

IU being included in the 4th gen as its leader.

Well that, I think is more valuable than the Grammys.

Frankly at this point, the Grammy to BTS, is more like a grudgingly given one, they deserved it for 2020 itself, compared to which 2022 .. Is meh

But better late than ever, I suppose.

And even if that gets them exemptions, I don't think it is going to change Kpop much.

Quote from WhyKnock

Senior actor Jung Donghwan acted with IU in You're the best, and she sometimes attended stage plays he acted on. So he had made a cameo appearance in Hotel Del Luna in the first 2 episodes.

IU does know how to treat senior actors and actresses well, a trait now rarely seen.

Growing with her grandmother, has shaped her well, since the days of Heroes, she has exhibited pretty honest affection and courtesy towards the elders.

But even in general, she (and team) are amazing in networking, pretty much everybody who has crossed paths with her, even not nice good folk like Myungsoo, get holiday gifts after many years.

Often with a personal touch too.

She still promotes old contacts like Spica's Boa or Feistar Yezi ..

I think EDAM might be spending 20-25% of work hours in such things.

It is as much the secret to her success, as singing, lyrics etc are

Quote from piedpiper134340

It is not, but BTS trajectory is also not comparable to other Kpop acts, it doesn't matter how successful they are.

That is also not the 'exception' answer.

Trajectories are highly individual - no two trajectories will be the same, so you would have to do a deviation analysis to show how different from the norm a trajectory is.

Too much data work.. I am ok to let it be.

They are stupendous success, a very rare non-West act breaking to global fame, (probably since ABBA, though ABBA is West - just not English/Latin). It is in that sense they are an exception.

But otherwise, I don't know.

Quote from piedpiper134340

Everytime they want something, they achieve it. Are you satisfied by my answer or you need more?

No. That is not any tangible/verifiable information.

But ok, I was not having high hopes of a valid answer anyway. Nor is it an easy question to answer.

Quote from WhyKnock

The K-O-R-E-A-N-S have to wean themselves from IU's songs but they don't show any signs of doing that.

Most people get old after 13 years but the Koreans still listen to her songs after all these time and next year someone who was not born when she debuted will probably enter KPop.

No signs indeed. It seems 'Drama' is particularly a hit with elementary schoolers.