Are Spotify streams a good metric for kpop groups popularity?

Not really. Total active monthly listeners is a better indicator.

I guess everything is irrelevant in kpop

If you look past the 1st week, yes.

But it only takes into account countries where Spotify is popular.

Yes it’s really good. Spotify streams are filtered much better and the monthly listeners metrics is also great. I would say it’s the only legit metric for international popularity.

Quote from itiswhatitisss

?? No? This number is heavily influenced by playlisting, it doesn't actually show which artists are popular or not. Streams are a much better indicator.

Playlisting is part of the Spotify eco system I need people to stop disregarding every single achievement by citing “playlisting”

Playlisting is influenced by other things like virality and popularity as well.

As far as we are concerned we only know the monthly listeners number and streaming numbers both are influenced by playlisting and both are still valid.

For me Spotify and YouTube daily streams after the first three months are the best indication of a groups popularity. Together they give a pretty complete picture.

If a group has 10 million streams and another has 100million isn’t it obvious who’s more popular lol

How popular they are outside of SK.

Spotify is the biggest music platform. Of course it's an indicator for groups' popularity.

People saying "mass streaming, playlisting" etc are just pulling out excuses. Mass streaming happens, yes, but it works only for the biggest fandoms AND Spotify is very strict when it comes to filtering so yeah, mass streaming not always contributes a lot. Playlisting helps but to be added to playlists, your song has to gain popularity and to be actively listened to.

Monthly listeners + streams + followers are the best way to see how popular a group is. Charting at the Spotify charts is also a good indicator.

Also, check the song of the group with lowest streams. If the song with lowest streams has over 10M that is very admirable

Quote from itiswhatitisss

?? No? This number is heavily influenced by playlisting, it doesn't actually show which artists are popular or not. Streams are a much better indicator.

I mean we’re talking about “popularity” here…. just cause you got a million streams doesn’t really mean you’re popular.

You can literally listen to a song for 30 secs and it’ll be counted as a stream at times.

As for Spotify’s filtering, they haven’t even released the specifics of their filtering.

Quote from ISaidISaid

Playlisting is part of the Spotify eco system I need people to stop disregarding every single achievement by citing “playlisting”

Playlisting is influenced by other things like virality and popularity as well.

As far as we are concerned we only know the monthly listeners number and streaming numbers both are influenced by playlisting and both are still valid.

I don’t even think they know what playlisting is….

So what are the only actual metrics left in kpop worth exploring about? If i fans can stream in spotify so why not k fans in Melon lmao.

Spotify is the biggest paid music platform so ye I think it's a good indication considering it's popular in all continents. In kpop though I feel people use it to prove ww popularity when it is not always the case. Context is needed

I don't get it... People say sales shouldn't be an indicator for success because fans mass buy. People say youtube/spotify shouldn't be indicators for success because fans mass stream. People say achievements/charts don't reflect success because it depends on timing and luck. What the hell determines a group's success then?

Quote from reina-en

I don't get it... People say sales shouldn't be an indicator for success because fans mass buy. People say youtube/spotify shouldn't be indicators for success because fans mass stream. People say achievements/charts don't reflect success because it depends on timing and luck. What the hell determines a group's success then?

My gut feeling

Quote from reina-en

I don't get it... People say sales shouldn't be an indicator for success because fans mass buy. People say youtube/spotify shouldn't be indicators for success because fans mass stream. People say achievements/charts don't reflect success because it depends on timing and luck. What the hell determines a group's success then?

lol it all else fails… concert halls/theatres, then move on to arenas, then multiple stadiums. basically touring success.

if you can book multiple stadiums in multiple countries then you’re doing something right….

Quote from itiswhatitisss

90% of playlisting is a result of labels sending $$$ to curators. This is VERY well-known

Sure but usually these a large discrepancy between playlisting reach/monthly listeners & actual streams.

Monthly listeners = mostly a result of passive listening fueled by playlisting ie Dua Lipa, Justin Bieber etc

Streams = Reflect ACTUAL consumption & people WILLING to listen to your music ie Taylor Swift, Bad Bunny, BTS etc

There's a reason why, say, BTS, Bad Bunny or Taylor Swift are constantly in the t10 most streamed artist daily despite having half the playlisting of some of their other peers who don't even make t10

ntm it's also influenced by recent releases & the MLs freefall after 30 days. Not a reliable metric at all.

Display More

What is the playlisting reach difference between these artists? cause I'm pretty sure bieber and dua lipa for example are ridiculously well known and popular rn. I don't believe playlisting is all needed to pull numbers, there are many cases of songs having massive playlisting not becoming hits so you still need the artist and song having staying power and people genuinely liking it

Quote from itiswhatitisss

90% of playlisting is a result of labels sending $$$ to curators. This is VERY well-known

Sure but usually these a large discrepancy between playlisting reach/monthly listeners & actual streams.

Monthly listeners = mostly a result of passive listening fueled by playlisting ie Dua Lipa, Justin Bieber etc

Streams = Reflect ACTUAL consumption & people WILLING to listen to your music ie Taylor Swift, Bad Bunny, BTS etc

There's a reason why, say, BTS, Bad Bunny or Taylor Swift are constantly in the t10 most streamed artist daily despite having half the playlisting of some of their other peers who don't even make t10

ntm it's also influenced by recent releases & the MLs freefall after 30 days. Not a reliable metric at all.

Display More

No it’s not just $$$$ you think SM ent has less money to spend than JYP or some other.

Your argument doesn’t hold true for kpop. The field is level. If anything I’d say big4 are more likely to get paylisting since they’re richer.

Playlisting is affected by payment and being viral both. I think the payment part one company isn’t doing more or less than the other and difference lies with what song is viral.

Kpop is a level playing field with an edge to the big4 companies. I won’t assume one company is paying more than the other if the playlisting is less. That’s not my first assumption at all. My first assumption is the song is not viral enough.

If a kpop company can pay esp big ones they will. So yeah you can say between nugu and big4 maybe big4 had more opportunities. But if you’re going to be backed by big labels don’t pull that BS about “playlisting” the difference is obviously reflected because of the differences in virality not because one company is paying more than the other.

I've found Monthly Listeners to be informative when it comes to Spotify, since usually it equals 1 person listening to 1 ML and it's about the situation of the past month.

While streaming can be influenced by mass streaming fans, where 1 active fan can equal hundreds if not thousands of streams.

But I guess both ML and streams each have their own use, as long as they're part of a whole set of metrics and indicators and not seen as the sole, one and only definitive stat.

It's a good indication of casual listeners but not really popularity unless you're looking at Spotify followers. It's good to show how much people are interested in a group but not how many people actively stan them

Since people are talking about playlisting, these are the songs in the main K-pop playlist.

I think only BTS and BP make it into the big Spotify playlists like TTH.

Quote from licoricebtch

lol it all else fails… concert halls/theatres, then move on to arenas, then multiple stadiums. basically touring success.

if you can book multiple stadiums in multiple countries then you’re doing something right….

Quote from itiswhatitisss

Touring

During pandemic where concerts are rarely held we can't count on touring. But believe me when I said I've seen people use excuses to disregard tour sales numbers too and it was ridiculous

Quote from itiswhatitisss

Last time I checked:

Dua - 700M playlisting reach

Taylor - ~570M playlisting reach

And yet one is constantly in the most streamed artists while the other....well

Display More

Dua lipa has hits. What Taylor song is a hit in recent years? Obviously cold heart and dsn will receive playlisting. I know that dua has tth residency but she is also one of the biggest hit makers. Also dua only has 2 albums .

About monthly listeners v. streams, as of this moment:

• Bad Bunny is #1 in streams, #25 in monthly listeners.
• Coldplay is #6 in monthly listeners, #21 in streams.

Who's bigger than who? Make your own conclusions.

Quote from itiswhatitisss

I mean I'd say it depends on what groups we're talking about? If you're referring to the whole thing with IVE then yes their "success" is simply result of enthusiastic SEA & Japan fans.

Either way I still don't think it's a very reliable metric? At the moment IVE have less monthly listeners than ITZY but only one group is charting on Spotify WW at the moment

I mean to say you argument about playlisting is irrelevant for kpop. Other than maybe BTS who is playing for the big leagues and for them it’s relevant.

Yes,I thought that was common knowledge.

I think most people in this thread are overthinking every facet of spotify's system

Quote from itiswhatitisss

Last time I checked:

Dua - 700M playlisting reach

Taylor - ~570M playlisting reach

And yet one is constantly in the most streamed artists while the other....well

Display More

Well we have to consider taylor is a much older and established artist. She has bigger discography and a more dedicated hardcore fandom by now, which is something she has in common with the other artists you mentioned like BTS and Bad Bunny (he is pretty much like IU but in all of latin america, he can release songs yelling and will go #1 here)

Quote from carrot-juice

Yes,I thought that was common knowledge.

I think most people in this thread are overthinking every facet of spotify's system

It’s because some people want to justify why some songs do better than others lol other than simply accepting they are at different levels of popularity.

For kpop most of the songs with high streams within the last two or so years have correspondingly gone viral on social media. With no major discrepancies.

For kpop groups both Spotify ULs and streams are decidedly good enough metrics to judge a groups popularity

SKZ, TXT, Ive, Twice etc all have had their songs go viral and hence also reflected on the Spotify charts. It’s not rocket science

Quote from atropos

Dua lipa has hits. What Taylor song is a hit in recent years? Obviously cold heart and dsn will receive playlisting. I know that dua has tth residency but she is also one of the biggest hit makers. Also dua only has 2 albums .

Dua Lipa receives better playlisting than Taylor even before we have the opportunity to know which song will become a hit or not.

Despite the high debut on Spotify, All Too Well wasn't even added on TTH for the first 5 days of release and when It was, debuted on Top 15, for example. And this is just the biggest, the other playlists are even worse.

Taylor isn't receiveing the level of Dua Lipa and Bieber's playlisting in the first days since Lover era. So I doubt It was to do only with the fact her songs aren't "hits" lol

Answering the question in the OP, yes, It's a good metric.

anyone who says it’s completely irrelevant is lying