We cannot lower the standards for digital success for any group.

You might think I made this point about one particular group, but it's something I've been thinking about this topic for a while.

I've seen people say many times now that X song:

• is a hit ("national" or otherwise)
• performed decently
• flopped/underperformed/tanked.

The difference between which of those 3 is said depends on the group that released the song, which is really unfair. Regardless of past success or underperformance with a song (or multiple), each song should be viewed objectively on its own.

Here are some metrics (Melon ULs, Genie ULs, digital points) for each tier that I think are fair, using Instiz's chart share breakdown:

Hit: 3M+ Melon ULs, 1.8M+ Genie ULs, 550M+ digital points

Decent (avg. performance): 1.5-2.99 Melon ULs, 900K-1.79M Genie ULs, 275M-549M digital points

Flop: <1.49M Melon ULs, <900k Genie ULs , <275M digital points

If a song hits 2 out 3, it qualifies for each tier.

Downloads are now so hard to get that any song that can hit 2.5M nowadays is a megahit (only 4 songs released in 2019 or later have hit the mark as of now).

Quote from Icaro_Ribeiro

I think your standard for flop is too high

A flop song for me would have less than 1 million, something like Mago that has ~700k Melon ULs

That's counterintuitive when I think about it, I can't lower the mark for an underperformance.

Quote from BlackpinkHouse

Regarding Melon UL counts and Gaon Digital Points....did you revise your standards lower to account for the across the board reduction in both of those metrics since the beginning of 2020? I feel like 850M - 900M points for songs released in 2020-2021 are equivalent to 1B points for songs released in 2018-2019. I feel like 4M UL on Melon for songs released in 2020-2021 are equivalent to 5M UL on Melon for songs released before then.

No actually. If I was doing this thread for general charting in Korea, the marks would be MUCH higher. Idol songs are typically smaller than actual hits.

See this thread I made for why: Idol Group Hits vs. Regular Hits

Quote from selenavvd

doesnt that make every bg song except bts flop

Yes. That's why you see people say "It's a hit for a boy group" but not "It's a hit". They have to add "boy group" as a qualifier.

Quote from atropos

I think I'll keep the cut off for hit at 500M itself as the points r down. Before i wouldn't consider anything that didn't pass 650M digital index a hit.

Also for flop i think it should be lowered to below 250-270M as again points r dead. I mean songs chart for 25 weeks and only have such points.

I used KTL as my benchmark for the digital points actually. It didn't tank, so 560 million points is respectable.

Lowering the "flop" threshold though? I can concede that. 275M is a good mark.

Quote from omnimorphism

How long does it take for a song to reach hit status?

How long? Depending on how long it charts. Every song is different.

Some songs stop charting top 100 but still gain ULs for a long time, like FIRE.

Quote from omnimorphism

Given the 550M+ digital points, I would say at least 6 months? It's just to have an idea of when we can start saying if it is a flop or a hit.

6 months is fair. Some fans judge too early because they don't see big picture.

Quote from Armedryu

So BTS, Cheer Up, Love Scenario and nothing else

No, there's a good amount of songs that are in the "Hit" tier.

Quote from itzysmidzy

by your definition aespa next level is flop.

If you actually read the replies and not just my OP, 6 months is a good waiting period to judge.

Obviously, some people want immediate results. But that's not how charts work. Some songs are clear hits right out of the gate, some are sleepers, and some peak incredibly high only to have shit longevity.

Quote from btsworlddom

We? Lol, Kpoopies sometimes take this shit so serious, Its embarrasing

Just say you personally disagree and leave.

Quote from daniel-cruz

Prime Example :- When We Disco

Exactly!

Quote from Flowercrew

Top 50 melon is a hit nowadays, right?

If it's stable inside top 50 for a couple months, it's decent. Not outstanding, but it's definitely good.

Quote from BUTTERBOYS

These days if some group chart decently, nothing exceptional, everyone starts saying it is big hit. That is now how it works.

Quote from SunnySun

the points dropped as a whole in general, look at top 10 yearly, 10th place yearly in 2019 had 830 mil points, in 2020 didn't even reached 700 mil, the best selling song in 2019 reached 1 billion, no song in 2020 reached 1 billion, in 2018 3 songs reached 1 billion, the points drop every year

I'm very well aware. It looks like 2021 will be a slight improvement over 2020 though.

Quote from SunnySun

I'm not sure, if you look at this past 4 monthly charts, only in like 2 months the 1st place has bigger points but by 4th place the points are already smaller, the overall points seams even smaller than 2020.

Summer should be the catalyst that heats things up. Hopefully

Quote from JustWhatIThink

I do that and I don't see what's wrong with it. Certain songs are hits for bg standards and they are released by bgs so we can't act like contexts doesn't matter or like ggs don't receive much more attention and unique listeners than bgs for merely the fact of being ggs. It's like saying Twice physicals are not good because bgs tend to sell much more. Hit is also a very wide term and at the end of the day is subjective. National hit is a different thing as well. Digitals only tell a part of the history.

This thread only aims to tell part of the story in the end anyway. I made the "Hit" tier wide on purpose, there's a bunch of songs that fit that criterion I laid out.

Also I don't see your point. TWICE's sales are good period not just for GGs. It's not like there are many groups can consistently sell 400k+ for years in a row.

But multiple boy groups are not releasing songs that generate 400M digital points, only 1 is doing that now.

Quote from Tic_tac_toe

‘That’s okay’ is not a flop you take that back massive

Group, not soloist. Kyungsoo's fine.

Quote from daniel-cruz

That song is a example where you have to take into consideration various factors if digitals are not enough....

Some songs have latent impact. and that's why my criteria doesn't fit all songs.