It really is a shame Korea has stopped giving a damn about JYP girl group music

Quote from Yama-Chan

JYP is still the label with the best profit margins in the industry

So the company itself is actually in a healthy state financially (better than HYBE, YG and SM).

There's no one easy answer, obviously, but I think there's something that's built into the beginning of your statement, that I have a feeling should be considered further. Higher profit margin =/= better state financially. HYBE and SM have much higher revenue, so you can really only compare JYP to YG, and I think everyone knows YG has been tanking.

While we don't have all the details about where the money is going, I'm willing to bet that HYBE and SM spend significantly more on marketing. Whether you want to call it payola or whatever else, the fact is, spending money on visibility simply works. There's virtually no such thing as purely "organic" popularity in entertainment, especially not pop music. Obviously, it's not everything, and idols need to show something extraordinary in order to get people to stay, but even as someone who follows Kpop primarily for the music, I recognize that what we're being sold first and foremost is an image (and this goes for almost all popular entertainment).

It must be considered that for those of us posting on a forum like this, we are way more tapped into the industry than the average person, so our perspectives are very skewed. Even so, I think I can loosely use myself as an example, as I got into Kpop around 2017 or so, then didn't actively follow anything from 2020-2024, and "returned" to following halfway through 2024. During that "hiatus", I still absorbed some information through friends/social media/advertisements. While I don't live in South Korea and cannot comment on what's going on over there, I live in Los Angeles, and specifically in Koreatown, and I can tell you that I was not aware of NMIXX's existence until I started actively looking into Kpop again, nor did I hear a single peep about ITZY. What I did see and hear about was NewJeans, aespa, Le Sserafim(Ive less so, but I certainly did hear the name Wonyoung a lot) and even Kiss of Life. I saw their faces plastered on billboards and products in stores, heard their music in cafes and restaurants. Perhaps you can say they were visible because they were already popular, but I would argue that--while that is partially true--the reverse may be equally if not more true: They became so popular because they were visible. While it has always been this way, it's never been more true in the past few years where visibility is everything. The attention economy is at an all time high, and if we're not being constantly reminded something exists, we're going to forget about it unless we are already super passionate about it.

Long story short, while there a multitude of factors, I am of the belief that the primary reason is that JYP does not invest as much in pushing the visibility of their groups. I'm not here to argue the details or the ethics of specific methods, but outside some outliers, I think the results generally speak for themselves.

Quote from Yama-Chan

for no other reason.

Quote from frala19

There's no one easy answer, obviously, but I think there's something that's built into the beginning of your statement, that I have a feeling should be considered further. Higher profit margin =/= better state financially. HYBE and SM have much higher revenue, so you can really only compare JYP to YG, and I think everyone knows YG has been tanking.

While we don't have all the details about where the money is going, I'm willing to bet that HYBE and SM spend significantly more on marketing. Whether you want to call it payola or whatever else, the fact is, spending money on visibility simply works. There's virtually no such thing as purely "organic" popularity in entertainment, especially not pop music. Obviously, it's not everything, and idols need to show something extraordinary in order to get people to stay, but even as someone who follows Kpop primarily for the music, I recognize that what we're being sold first and foremost is an image (and this goes for almost all popular entertainment).

It must be considered that for those of us posting on a forum like this, we are way more tapped into the industry than the average person, so our perspectives are very skewed. Even so, I think I can loosely use myself as an example, as I got into Kpop around 2017 or so, then didn't actively follow anything from 2020-2024, and "returned" to following halfway through 2024. During that "hiatus", I still absorbed some information through friends/social media/advertisements. While I don't live in South Korea and cannot comment on what's going on over there, I live in Los Angeles, and specifically in Koreatown, and I can tell you that I was not aware of NMIXX's existence until I started actively looking into Kpop again, nor did I hear a single peep about ITZY. What I did see and hear about was NewJeans, aespa, Le Sserafim(Ive less so, but I certainly did hear the name Wonyoung a lot) and even Kiss of Life. I saw their faces plastered on billboards and products in stores, heard their music in cafes and restaurants. Perhaps you can say they were visible because they were already popular, but I would argue that--while that is partially true--the reverse may be equally if not more true: They became so popular because they were visible. While it has always been this way, it's never been more true in the past few years where visibility is everything. The attention economy is at an all time high, and if we're not being constantly reminded something exists, we're going to forget about it unless we are already super passionate about it.

Long story short, while there a multitude of factors, I am of the belief that the primary reason is that JYP does not invest as much in pushing the visibility of their groups. I'm not here to argue the details or the ethics of specific methods, but outside some outliers, I think the results generally speak for themselves.

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Bro really said "Long story short" after going through the entire book

At least if they were appealing to ifans and not kfans we can say it was a concept shift or something but they’re really not making music that appeals to anyone at this point or rather no one is bothered enough to check them out which is sad.

Quote from ISaidISaid

At least if they were appealing to ifans and not kfans we can say it was a concept shift or something but they’re really not making music that appeals to anyone at this point or rather no one is bothered enough to check them out which is sad.

And JYP 2.0 was all about expanding through the world

It didn't work very well, except for NiziU, and limited to Japan

Is it bad if I say imo Nmixx killed Itzy’s remaining hype in Korea

Imo they were too alike music wise! I think that’s risky having two groups in the same gen with similar almost identical music from the same company? They could swap TT and no one would thick any different! (SM did it with GG /Fx and look how different they were and the different crowds/fans they attracted).

Nmixx should have been a heavy vocal/R&B group from the start and released songs like Know about me or just go with being Twice 2.0 since Twice had already changed their concept by the time Nmixx was debuting

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

yknow I dont think ive heard an itzy track since Mafia

Let me see what they've been up to...

Imaginary Friend!

I have something controversial to say :

I think LSFM killed Itzy’s hype because they somewhat cater to the same audience : a slick dancing group with bold or quirky tunes

Also, NMIXX biggest song is a cover of Day6 Happy, so much that it manage to make it viral and it is still Top 15 on the charts despite the sing released 1 year ago

They even have a freaking rehearsal video over 1mil view

It might be a song issue guys

Quote from foreveraespaaa

Is it bad if I say imo Nmixx killed Itzy’s remaining hype in Korea

Imo they were too alike music wise! I think that’s risky having two groups in the same gen with similar almost identical music from the same company? They could swap TT and no one would thick any different! (SM did it with GG /Fx and look how different they were and the different crowds/fans they attracted).

Nmixx should have been a heavy vocal/R&B group from the start and released songs like Know about me or just go with being Twice 2.0 since Twice had already changed their concept by the time Nmixx was debuting

I think Itzy changed a lot though

I used to like their songs more.

Quote from foreveraespaaa

Is it bad if I say imo Nmixx killed Itzy’s remaining hype in Korea

Imo they were too alike music wise! I think that’s risky having two groups in the same gen with similar almost identical music from the same company? They could swap TT and no one would thick any different! (SM did it with GG /Fx and look how different they were and the different crowds/fans they attracted).

Nmixx should have been a heavy vocal/R&B group from the start and released songs like Know about me or just go with being Twice 2.0 since Twice had already changed their concept by the time Nmixx was debuting

I think it's more about song selection and marketing. Itzy comebacks aren't marketed as big deals when compared to their peers imo. I can't remember the last time people were sold on Itzy based on concept.

What I find interesting about Itzy charting after Loco. The songs that international audience didn't like charted well in Korea, and the songs the international fans like didn't chart well in Korea. I was shocked to see sneakers has a peak position at 5 and Cake 22. Other than those 2 tracks the highest peak for a title track was Cheshire that charted at 89. It makes me wonder if it's marketing or them not selecting the right song that resonates with both audiences.

I agree that JYP got Nmixx wrong and their polarizing first reception wasn't good for the group. I think Nmixx would be viewed differently if they debuted with Love me like this. Unsure why they went with a mixpop group when they have strong vocalist. They should've been marketed as a vocal group with solid performance and didn't need mixpop gimmick

Quote from DaisyTheGenuine

yknow I dont think ive heard an itzy track since Mafia

Let me see what they've been up to...

They have some good b-sides, but they have some odd choices for title tracks imo

Did Yama get a WP

Quote from Yama-Chan

The points you made regarding the assessment of the financial health of a company are valid, and your anecdote about the power of proliferating the images of your idols and groups in as many visible sectors as possible is also valid. Well said.

I've openly pondered why JYP's ability to have hugely popular girl groups on the charts, like they did in previous generations, before, and back then I and several others concluded they're antiquated and/or stagnant in their approach to marketing their idols.

But all the reasons why aside, I just think it's sad times, especially since I can remember when their girl groups were almost always in the spot light. JYP has been a foundational company, a member of the Big 3 before it became the Big 4, for years, and they weren't the 3rd one to enter the group either.

I assume they pay people very handsome salaries to analyze and solve the kinds of problems they're facing with the complete absence of successful charting as of late, and they're either arriving at the wrong answers...or simply don't care.

Either way, it sucks.

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in terms of financial health I think also that JYPE might be one of the companies who's split heavily favours JYP compared to the artist (I cannot speak of the other big3 since I have no knowledge about those companies)

the only evidence I have of that is Somi having this discussion with Chaeyoung

(timestamped at around 5.20)

I think that whilst JYPE does take care of it's artists the split might be more skewed towards JYP (at least until 1st contract renewal)

Quote from ISaidISaid

Did Yama get a WP

When doesn't he

Quote from StanGIDLE

I think it's more about song selection and marketing. Itzy comebacks aren't marketed as big deals when compared to their peers imo. I can't remember the last time people were sold on Itzy based on concept.

What I find interesting about Itzy charting after Loco. The songs that international audience didn't like charted well in Korea, and the songs the international fans like didn't chart well in Korea. I was shocked to see sneakers has a peak position at 5 and Cake 22. Other than those 2 tracks the highest peak for a title track was Cheshire that charted at 89. It makes me wonder if it's marketing or them not selecting the right song that resonates with both audiences.

I agree that JYP got Nmixx wrong and their polarizing first reception wasn't good for the group. I think Nmixx would be viewed differently if they debuted with Love me like this. Unsure why they went with a mixpop group when they have strong vocalist. They should've been marketed as a vocal group with solid performance and didn't need mixpop gimmick

Agreed! Itzy’s last comeback was great imo! I think unfortunately Knets have moved on from them and nothing they can do will bring back their support also Itzy are in their 5/6th year. At this stage JYP should focus on maintaining and catering towards the fandom

Tbh Korean and international fans rarely agree on music for almost every group

Nmixx case is unique! Their debut and concept was received badly and then losing one of their popular members during their rookie years didn’t help!

I don’t know if debuting another new gg is the answer for JYP too at this point what can a new girl group bring that Itzy and Nmixx can’t do

Quote from foreveraespaaa

Agreed! Itzy’s last comeback was great imo! I think unfortunately Knets have moved on from them and nothing they can do will bring back their support also Itzy are in their 5/6th year. At this stage JYP should focus on maintaining and catering towards the fandom

Tbh Korean and international fans rarely agree on music for almost every group

Nmixx case is unique! Their debut and concept was received badly and then losing one of their popular members during their rookie years didn’t help!

I don’t know if debuting another new gg is the answer for JYP too at this point what can a new girl group bring that Itzy and Nmixx can’t do

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There's no rush to debut a new GG imo. Twice is still going strong, and both Itzy and Nmixx have a stable fanbase. I agree that Itzy reached their ceiling and they need to shift with solo and subunits. Giving Yeji a solo was the right move and they should give another member a solo or subunit. I think it's time for them to bank on solo efforts for the group. Yeji performed well as a soloist, and I think other members should perform well

The Jini departure is confusing because she's not doing much for her solo career but she was linked to a kdrama. Nmixx recent comeback may have put more people onto their music. Unsure what that translates to, but it seems people are starting to take them more seriously. I think they can still turn it around if they have a couple more solid comebacks. I think JYP needs to do better marketing which is hurting them. Haewon and Sullyoon have moments where they go viral and they do nothing to capitalize on it. I felt the same thing happened with Itzy where they did nothing when members went viral because each Itzy member had moments.

jyp just needs to evaluate what went wrong and right with Itzy and Nmixx and use that to create a new group. I don't think there's a rush because the market is crowded and it's not about being first but more about getting it right. They were early with Itzy and had the early start but it didn't do much for them because they're outside of the top 5 for 4th gen group. Then with Nmixx they debuted mixpop late because people were calling it a poor effort of taking on Aespa. If they debuted a year later with love me like this, then we're having a different conversation imo