Which girl group's sub vocalists have better singers? GFRIEND or Red Velvet

honestly the sub vocalists of gfriend and rv are overrated. i hear people say that all of gfriend/rv are the best vocalists. it’s true that yuju/wendy and i’d even argue seulgi too are some of the best third gen vocalists but the other members are kinda weak.

there are only two groups (that i know of) where the group is perfect vocally, by that i mean every member is at least average and no weak singers. and that is snsd and mamamoo. 5/9 members in snsd are main vocal tier which is incredibly impressive for such a large group, and the remaining members are above average or average singers. 3/4 members of mamamoo are main vocal tier and the other 1 is a stable lead vocalist even tho her specialty is rap.

Quote from tzuwi

honestly the sub vocalists of gfriend and rv are overrated. i hear people say that all of gfriend/rv are the best vocalists. it’s true that yuju/wendy and i’d even argue seulgi too are some of the best third gen vocalists but the other members are kinda weak.

there are only two groups (that i know of) where the group is perfect vocally, by that i mean every member is at least average and no weak singers. and that is snsd and mamamoo. 5/9 members in snsd are main vocal tier which is incredibly impressive for such a large group, and the remaining members are above average or average singers. 3/4 members of mamamoo are main vocal tier and the other 1 is a stable lead vocalist even tho her specialty is rap.

You should really be more considerate and give us a warning next time. I was drinking something when I read the part about SNSD having no weak singers. If I had made it to the "5/9 are main vocal tier" part without spitting it out, I probably would've already choked to death.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

You should really be more considerate and give us a warning next time. I was drinking something when I read the part about SNSD having no weak singers. If I had made it to the "5/9 are main vocal tier" part without spitting it out, I probably would've already choked to death.

what part of that is crazy? taeyeon, tiffany, seohyun, jessica, sunny. there was literally a subunit of three of those that showcased their powerful voices. jessica is known for having an extremely powerful and captivating voice. sunny has a really great higher register and would be main vocalist in manyyyy other groups.

i didn’t say the others are all great, but they are average at worst.

Quote from tzuwi

what part of that is crazy? taeyeon, tiffany, seohyun, jessica, sunny. there was literally a subunit of three of those that showcased their powerful voices. jessica is known for having an extremely powerful and captivating voice. sunny has a really great higher register and would be main vocalist in manyyyy other groups.

i didn’t say the others are all great, but they are average at worst.

Hyoyeon has a god awful voice for starters. One of the worst singers in all of Kpop. Yoona, Yuri & Sooyoung are all well below average. Sunny is too high-pitched. She comes on and it's like listening to a song by the Chipmunks. Tiffany went to the Christina Aguilera School of Faking How To Be a Good Singer. She's highly overrated. No one even paid her any mind until Jessica left and she swooped in to take more of the lines, and there's a reason why. Her and Seohyun only made it into a sub-unit thanks to Taeyeon's politicking, not because they deserved the showcase.

red velvet.

Gfriend has that one member whose vocal sounds like an elementary schooler

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

Hyoyeon has a god awful voice for starters. One of the worst singers in all of Kpop. Yoona, Yuri & Sooyoung are all well below average. Sunny is too high-pitched. She comes on and it's like listening to a song by the Chipmunks. Tiffany went to the Christina Aguilera School of Faking How To Be a Good Singer. She's highly overrated. No one even paid her any mind until Jessica left and she swooped in to take more of the lines, and there's a reason why. Her and Seohyun only made it into a sub-unit thanks to Taeyeon's politicking, not because they deserved the showcase.

the delusion is insane. i could spam videos that show that yoona/yuri/sooyoung are solid singers but i won’t do that rn. the best, strong singers? no, but in terms of idols they are average. so is hyoyeon, but she doesn’t have as much experience because she’s the rapper and they don’t make her sing a lot anyways (srsly hyoyeon often got like no lines). jessica was the 2nd main vocalist so ofc people paid more attention to her but tiffany really improved after sica left and tiffany has a great voice for pop songs (like you think is where she really shined vocally imo). just because you don’t like sunny’s voice doesn’t make her a good singer, she was able to have a solid vocal performance while literally rolling on the ground. unless your favorite group is mamamoo you have no right coming for one of the best groups vocally. sm vocals don’t play around.

I'll admit that I haven't heard that many live vocal performances from GFriend's subvocalists. Still, I think that it's Red Velvet of these two groups, even if I had heard more GFriend's vocal performances. For reasons explained more below.

Quote from tzuwi

honestly the sub vocalists of gfriend and rv are overrated. i hear people say that all of gfriend/rv are the best vocalists. it’s true that yuju/wendy and i’d even argue seulgi too are some of the best third gen vocalists but the other members are kinda weak.

there are only two groups (that i know of) where the group is perfect vocally, by that i mean every member is at least average and no weak singers. and that is snsd and mamamoo. 5/9 members in snsd are main vocal tier which is incredibly impressive for such a large group, and the remaining members are above average or average singers. 3/4 members of mamamoo are main vocal tier and the other 1 is a stable lead vocalist even tho her specialty is rap.

I kinda agree and disagree.

To be frank, I haven't heard GFriend and RV vocals and subvocalists be praised that abundantly and excessively to the point that they can be seen as 'overrated'. In fact, I think it's the more opposite and in RV's case it's almost to the extent as how SNSD and Super Junior were masssively underrated and put away as 'talentless visuals' and even ridiculed when objective vocal analysts mentioned they wanted to give a Super Junior vocal analysis a shot ('why would you even want to analyse the mediocre vocals of that zero talent group?') on sites like this one.

For RV too, I can't count the many times in previous years that RV vocals and vocalists and their vocal talents were dismissed and trivialized, on this site too, and ignored when talking about top tier vocal girl groups of 3rd gen ('oh, it's just Wendy that's strong, the rest are forgettable'). Completely forgetting that Red Velvet are one of the few girl groups that sound truly (and effortlessly) amazing when singing live, and that even the RV subvocalists sound good live and know how to harmonize impressively.

Which, honestly, should come as no surprise that RV as a whole are a top vocal group of their gen: SM has always had an intense focus on delivering strong vocalists and have their entire groups sound great while singing, which is partly due to SM's impressive vocal coaches and vocal coaching they invest in. SNSD, DBSK, The Grace, SHINee, EXO... RV is just 1 SM group in a lineup of strong vocal groups.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

You should really be more considerate and give us a warning next time. I was drinking something when I read the part about SNSD having no weak singers. If I had made it to the "5/9 are main vocal tier" part without spitting it out, I probably would've already choked to death.

Respectfully disagree here.

You might hate or dislike SNSD or SNSD members however you like and not like how SNSD's vocals sound - what vocal color or tone you like is after all a matter of personal, subjective preference. But it's a matter of fact that SNSD is a top vocal girl group and that their entire vocal line is easily as good as and better than the majority of main vocalists of 2nd gen-4th gen girl groups, vocal technique-wise. And even their subvocalists can still sing and harmonize well live.

Like said, just like every company of the Big 4 had their particular talents and strengths they focused on for their groups, vocals and harmonizing were the traits that SM focused on when it comes to their groups, especially in earlier gens.

Quote from FoReveries

I'll admit that I haven't heard that many live vocal performances from GFriend's subvocalists. Still, I think that it's Red Velvet of these two groups, even if I had heard more GFriend's vocal performances. For reasons explained more below.

I kinda agree and disagree.

To be frank, I haven't heard GFriend and RV vocals and subvocalists be praised that abundantly and excessively to the point that they can be seen as 'overrated'. In fact, I think it's the more opposite and in RV's case it's almost to the extent as how SNSD and Super Junior were masssively underrated and put away as 'talentless visuals' and even ridiculed when objective vocal analysts mentioned they wanted to give a Super Junior vocal analysis a shot ('why would you even want to analyse the mediocre vocals of that zero talent group?') on sites like this one.

For RV too, I can't count the many times in previous years that RV vocals and vocalists and their vocal talents were dismissed and trivialized, on this site too, and ignored when talking about top tier vocal girl groups of 3rd gen ('oh, it's just Wendy that's strong, the rest are forgettable'). Completely forgetting that Red Velvet are one of the few girl groups that sound truly (and effortlessly) amazing when singing live, and that even the RV subvocalists sound good live and know how to harmonize impressively.

Which, honestly, should come as no surprise that RV as a whole are a top vocal group of their gen: SM has always had an intense focus on delivering strong vocalists and have their entire groups sound great while singing, which is partly due to SM's impressive vocal coaches and vocal coaching they invest in. SNSD, DBSK, The Grace, SHINee, EXO... RV is just 1 SM group in a lineup of strong vocal groups.

Respectfully disagree here.

You might hate or dislike SNSD or SNSD members however you like and not like how SNSD's vocals sound - what vocal color or tone you like is after all a matter of personal, subjective preference. But it's a matter of fact that SNSD is a top vocal girl group and that their entire vocal line is easily as good as and better than the majority of main vocalists of 2nd gen-4th gen girl groups, vocal technique-wise. And even their subvocalists can still sing and harmonize well live.

Like said, just like every company of the Big 4 had their particular talents and strengths they focused on for their groups, vocals and harmonizing were the traits that SM focused on when it comes to their groups, especially in earlier gens.

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i’ve been out of the kpop community for a while now (i was super active in kpop spaces during 2nd & 3rd gen and lost interest in 4th gen but i’m back now) so admittedly what i think the “popular” opinion is might be outdated at this point.

out of the big 3 gg of the third gen, red velvet is easily the best vocally and it doesn’t even come close. their lead vocalist is still a league above the main vocalists of twice and bp. & this is coming from someone who ults twice. they sound amazing live like omg. sm really does have many of the top vocalists in the industry. like, people talk about ningning, taeyeon and wendy but they also have luna from fx, lina and dana from the grace and others like even the lead vocalists in sm groups could be main vocalists. i won’t speak on their boy groups cuz i don’t pay attention to men in the industry but yeah.

also i respect you sm for defending the vocal queens that are girls generation

Quote from FoReveries

But it's a matter of fact that SNSD is a top vocal girl group and that their entire vocal line is easily as good as and better than the majority of main vocalists of 2nd gen-4th gen girl groups, vocal technique-wise.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

Hyoyeon has a god awful voice for starters. One of the worst singers in all of Kpop. Yoona, Yuri & Sooyoung are all well below average. Sunny is too high-pitched. She comes on and it's like listening to a song by the Chipmunks. Tiffany went to the Christina Aguilera School of Faking How To Be a Good Singer. She's highly overrated. No one even paid her any mind until Jessica left and she swooped in to take more of the lines, and there's a reason why. Her and Seohyun only made it into a sub-unit thanks to Taeyeon's politicking, not because they deserved the showcase.

If we're talking about the technical aspects of singing, most if not all of what you said has no relevance. SNSD has five good technical singers which puts them well above the average vocal line of a K-pop girl group (in fact easily among the best for the popular girl groups). Feel free to name a group outside of Mamamoo or other lesser known vocal-focused groups like SPICA, and we can compare best vs best, 2nd best vs 2nd best, etc.

I'm also curious what you would consider an "average" main vocal and an "average" sub/non vocalist, and I'm fully expecting you to name me well above average ones because otherwise, you'd look silly.

Quote from Reclaimer

If we're talking about the technical aspects of singing, most if not all of what you said has no relevance. SNSD has five good technical singers which puts them well above the average vocal line of a K-pop girl group (in fact easily among the best for the popular girl groups). Feel free to name a group outside of Mamamoo or other lesser known vocal-focused groups like SPICA, and we can compare best vs best, 2nd best vs 2nd best, etc.

I'm also curious what you would consider an "average" main vocal and an "average" sub/non vocalist, and I'm fully expecting you to name me well above average ones because otherwise, you'd look silly.

It's easy to say something you disagree with has "no relevance," but I'm afraid you've not done anything to prove SNSD's "technical" proficiency at singing. And what does that even mean? That they're using the correct technique? Because that's not going to magically improve a mediocre voice. If you want me to name a group, how about their own successors? Red Velvet absolutely blows them out of the water vocally, both in terms of their main singers and overall harmonization. It's not even close.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

It's easy to say something you disagree with has "no relevance," but I'm afraid you've not done anything to prove SNSD's "technical" proficiency at singing. And what does that even mean? That they're using the correct technique? Because that's not going to magically improve a mediocre voice. If you want me to name a group, how about their own successors? Red Velvet absolutely blows them out of the water vocally, both in terms of their main singers and overall harmonization. It's not even close.

For starters, how about being able to reach the notes in the songs they're performing live? Not sounding flat or sharp for the highest or lowest notes? And if we go with how professionals evaluate singing ability, how about projecting sound from the vocal chords instead of sounding too throaty or breathy? Ability to perform vibratos? Agility? Not straining but being resonant when belting?

Whether someone has a voice you like or don't like has no relevance to these singing abilities.

Anyways,

Taeyeon >= Wendy (both among the best female vocalists in K-pop)

Jessica > Seulgi

Seohyun, Tiffany > Joy

Sunny > Yeri, Irene

Some of the performances I've based my comparisons on:

If you disagree with any of the comparisons I'd be happy to hear your arguments.

But otherwise like I predicted you chose Red Velvet which is absolutely not an "average" group in terms of vocal ability (arguably they're the second strongest in 3rd gen), so already your claim that SNSD are below average falls flat.

Man imgine trying to call SNSD shit singers when they've had over a decade to show how good they are as a group and individuals, including the non vocalists who are at least confident and capable enough to sing live without issue. I've seen flat earthers make more sense.

The lack of self awareness it takes to flat out disrespect SNSD's vocals like this, while being hyper defensive over any remotely critical comment towards Twice's talents, is mind boggling

Red Velvet by far.

Quote from tzuwi

the delusion is insane. i could spam videos that show that yoona/yuri/sooyoung are solid singers but i won’t do that rn. the best, strong singers? no, but in terms of idols they are average. so is hyoyeon, but she doesn’t have as much experience because she’s the rapper and they don’t make her sing a lot anyways (srsly hyoyeon often got like no lines). jessica was the 2nd main vocalist so ofc people paid more attention to her but tiffany really improved after sica left and tiffany has a great voice for pop songs (like you think is where she really shined vocally imo). just because you don’t like sunny’s voice doesn’t make her a good singer, she was able to have a solid vocal performance while literally rolling on the ground. unless your favorite group is mamamoo you have no right coming for one of the best groups vocally. sm vocals don’t play around.

Hyoyeon has a husky voice but she is a better singer than most people think. However, to most people who don't understand vocals, Hyoyeon can't sing yet she sounds so beautiful that she had a bunch of lines in the last Snsd album. And the fact that Korea only gives chance to idols basing on their visuals, Hyoyeon never tried to use her vocals or even SM who would have given her a stylistic kind of music according to her vocal colour for solos.

Since Yeri is kinda weak. I choose Gfriend