Did you miss "Good Day" in 2010 and "You & I" in 2011? "You &I" is still the most downloaded song in Gaon history, I believe, and "Good Day" was routinely named one of the songs of the decade for the 2010s.
She flew to China every weekend for 8 weeks in 2016 to hold fanmeets and mini-concerts lol, how else do you think she managed to build such a robust Chinese fanbase.
"Lilac" has been on the top of the charts for 3 weeks, it accumulated 265 PAKs, is second only to "Celebrity" for hours spent at #1 on Melon for 2021 (and still counting), and IU swept the music shows for the weeks after her comeback, despite only promoting for 1 week. "Lilac" looks like it'll top the monthly charts for Gaon and Melon too. WhyKnock another poor prediction?
"we ride" certified as the next viral hit.
I think I’m looking at the overall album
Charting? I don’t know anymore
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Ah yea they must be talking about the Gaon Album Chart which is physical sales.
Of course it's always possible for soloists to rise with further comebacks and songs but the initial debut hype is pretty important to set the standard for the solo debut and part of that is on SM for not doing more.
She did well tbh, her first peaked at 2 but she does better now. She done well, but she's also improved in consistency and has gained a bigger fanbase, it all takes time.
Not many people start at the top like teayeon, example IU. It took her awhile to Get as big as she is now, it's not impossible for any idol, so long as they're consistent and make good music.
what are you talking about? "I" was number 1 on the charts and one of Taeyeon's best digitally performing songs. If anything, her consistency has been a lot more erratic in the last 2 years (hasn't really had a hit since "four seasons" and even before that there were up and downs like "fine" vs "something new"). Her album sales have also stayed relatively stable over the last 5 years - she sold over 100k for her first mini-album and sold a similar number for her most recent mini album (her full albums sell better by about ~50k).
It took IU 2 years to get big (she debuted Sept 2008 with abysmal digital/physical sales, "Good Day" came out Dec 2010 and that mini sold over 90k) but you can't compare at all because IU didn't start in a group - when she debuted as a solo, she started at 0, with zero recognition, fans, hype, or reputation.
The main problem with Wendy is lack of promotion and hype. Has she been on a single radio or promotional show at all? Did SM just release her album and then peace out?
Display MoreTo me, the terms "general public support" and "casual listener" both are used incorrectly by Kpop fans.
So many times i read people saying they stream a song but only consider themselves "casual listeners". I'm like, bruh, if you actively make a choice to put a song on your playlist because you like it, you're not a casual listener, you're a casual fan at least. Casual listeners are people who just listen to radio or let YT algorithms determine their songlist while they're working out at the gym. If you're actively choosing a song to listen to, by definition you aint a neutral listener anymore.
The term general public support is similarly problematic. If you're supporting someone, by definition, you're not a member of the "general public" anymore. You're at the very least a casual fan. Maybe not a hardcore fan that buys all the albums and merch, but STILL a fan nonetheless. Also, to claim that any artist has GP support doesnt really make sense since the GP is ginormous. IU supposedly has widespread GP support but look at her streaming numbers (only 500k UL on Melon, maybe another 500k on Genie, Bugs, Flo etc) and compare them to the general population of Korea (50 million) - shouldnt someone who supposedly has GP support have at least 25M Koreans streaming her songs?
All that said, i've already given up on my arguments and now just use these terms the same way everyone else does lol. It was a losing battle trying to change people's minds.
1. You can be a casual fan of a song but that doesn't mean you're a casual fan of the artist. Just because I put a song from someone on my playlist does not mean I'm interested in listening to their other songs or even listening to their next new release. Or do you not differentiate between the fan of a song vs fan of the artist?
2. You can't compare streaming ULs to general population - it's about sample size. Not all 50 million people in SK use subscription music services. IU has the highest ULs (800k+) of any artist on the biggest streaming service - by your definition, there would be NO celebrities with widespread support. It's like saying just because Yoo Jaesuk's TV show pulls in 4-6% ratings (meaning 4-6% of the general population), then he doesn't have widespread GP support. That's just not true.
But the downfall started from there. I remember the leo doing kind of decent. It had a good start with 700k+ uls(if i am not wrong). And then she bombed. I do hope she rises from this.
And u got a good point about casual listeners. R casual listeners as loyal as stans who'll listen no matter what? No they won't.
Even look at akmu's recent song. They have fans but it still tanked. Again maybe too many casuals?
"Leo" did well but I think it was helped by the Bol4 x Baekhyun collab hype (I remember seeing a lot of news articles about it). imo "Leo" and "Hug" also sounded too similar. She should've chosen a title song that stood out from the pre-release track.
The chart reform badly hurt digital artists that depend more on casual listeners. With the way Melon and Flo work now, it's easy for new songs to fall through the cracks unless there are loyal listeners or the song just pops off. Probably doesn't help that pandemic has made promoting songs on shows/fanmeets/etc harder too.
People don't consider IU fan driven though. Her achievements are not ridiculed like others are.
I think the point of this thread is if acts consistently get some amount of uls than they are fans. It's not just first hours that count. SOME songs of acts are heard outside of their regular fans and thus perform better than their songs perform on a regular basis.
For Twice I think they lost part of the fanbase that streams more and were fickle. And I think their album sales are not growing, but are more stable.
Almost every song/album that IU releases achieves viral-level stats tho in terms of digital sales. So either her fandom is so big that they're able to give her SOTY-level sales with every release, or she also has GP support in addition to large digital listener base.
Going off what was said earlier in the conversation that all national-level hit songs need some kind of non-fan support in addition to fans - so either IU fanbase is that big, or her songs get a lot of non-fan support, or IU is just an anomaly and doesn't rly fit well into this narrative.
TBH Bol4's songs were mostly Jiyoung's voice anyway so I don't know how much the other member leaving played a part in the poor digital charting - imo the problem was that Bol4 kept releasing the same sound with every release, and listeners got tired of it (unlike what OP says in the first post, I actually think casual listeners tend to punish artists who release the same kind of song over and over). I hope she'll try something new/fresh for her next comeback.
IU is fan-driven - as someone else mentioned she has the highest 1st hour unique listeners by a landslide. Those people are waiting at 6 PM on release day to stream.
But most other so-called digimons (Heize, Zico, Zion.T, Akmu, etc etc) have low 1st hr unique listeners so you can't really apply IU standards to other digital artists, even the ones who've had successful hits through the years.
Did Twice really lose that many fans? I thought their album sales and concert tours increased over the years.
Some of your calculations are a little off - for example, Rihanna was not actually paid 25 million for the Samsung advertisement. Samsung SPONSORED a 25 million deal in junction with her concert and album tour, so they partially funded her tour in return for advertising. Rihanna herself did not get paid 25 million (I'm sure she still got a fair chunk!).
50% of album sales is also 50% of album profits, not price of the album. I don't know if manufacturing is different now but I generally calculate that as 50% of album cost goes to manufacturing, then another 25% goes to retailers, then 25% goes to songwriters/royalties/artists/agency.
Touring and merch is where BTS makes the bulk of their money, and I do think including stock options each BTS member is north of 50 million each in net worth.
Please read what I’ve said again.
I think ultimately we just have very different definitions for what counts as "digitally consistent". IU is really the only artist who can continually and over time release anything and it will top digital charts for minimum a few days, enough for a PAK, but I do consider her uniquely fanbase-driven compared to other soloists. The scale of her concerts in South Korea are evidence enough that her listeners are loyal.
Life Goes On and Black Swan dropped fast too
Depends on what you consider a flop
That was the first single as a one member act right?
Yes, it was the first comeback after the other member left. Bol4's title song "Hug" peaked on Gaon at #30 and then kept dropping after that, charting out completely from the Top 200 within a couple months. "Life Goes On" and "Black Swan" both had way better charting and stability than that.
Display MoreThey do stream that’s the whole point lol. I’m talking about the ppl with consistent digitals hits. Try reading the post again.
Twice back to back hits
BP back to back hits
Big Bang back to back hits
IU back to back hits
Are fandom driven.
But Twice hasn't had a hit since "Fancy". Sure, compared to artists who cannot chart digitally, everything they release comparatively is a hit, but their digital performance has clearly suffered because their music consumption has become more fandom-driven and less GP. It's also easier for trendy/popular artists to have back-to-back hits for 1-2 years because the hype from the previous hit song will help the next song, but unless they can sustain that past 1-2 years, the digital listeners fade away too. Those high listeners in the 1-2 years wasn't really a fanbase, it was just the hype surrounding the artist following a hit song.
For example, I check out every new Blackpink release on Spotify the day that the song drops because BP are popular and buzzworthy, but I don't consider myself part of their fanbase at all. After listening to the song 1-2 times on the day of release, if I don't like it, then I don't stream any more.
Because you're comparing BG stans to digimon "stans", right? BG stans are known to be loyal - they buy albums no matter what, even if they don't like the songs. That's different than how digimon "stans" behave regarding the digimons - if they don't like the music they don't stream. One belongs to a fandom, and the other one doesn't. If that's the case, then anyone who just checks out any new song once by an artist they like can be said to belong to their fandom.
I get that you don't like people belittling BG fans or their digital performance, but it's not a bad thing that they actually have loyal fans who will buy and consume whatever they release. Why treat it like an insult?
Except they do stream that’s the whole point lol.
It would be like a BG selling 700k in albums for one comeback, then another comeback selling 300k, then another comeback selling 500k, all within 2 years time. That's just not the same behavior. Fandoms are loyal - if they're not loyal, then they're not a fandom.
Digitally topping the charts with one song, then another song released 6 months later barely peaking in top 20 and dropping fast means casual listeners checked out the song but no longer bothered streaming if they didn't like it. BG fans don't listen to the songs first then decide they're not going to buy the album.
