Posts by Queeeenie

Quote from MissBehave

Yeah, maybe i would feel differently if they weren't help up as the ideal.

I think celebrities (all of them, not just idols) and influences should also be forthcoming about plastic surgeries they've had

Kpop's target audience are young and impressionable.

They also literally call their artists "idols".

So yes I think they absolutely should be promoting healthy body images.

Quote from SandyBee3

People argue with buzzwords these days, it feels like debating with a bot, they use all these buzzword but aren’t specific with what they find problematic. It’s like they are reacting to words and are not comprehending and then just copy paste the same slogans.

There is no critical thinking if you can’t challenge your thoughts.

Yeah exactly. I know I have fallen into the trap too, like it's just so easy to use these terms reactively. And people will back down because of the shame associated with the label.

I think I could write a whole essay on this topic.

If we can't go beyond the surface then the result is further polarisation.

Since the last few times I had those long discussions with you in your threads I think my perspectives have changed quite a lot. It's good to keep an open mind and challenge your own beliefs and motivations

No.

It's the sasaengs, akgaes and shippers imo. You know the shippers that I mean, the extreme ones, not the ones who do it lightheartedly.

The most vicious fans I've seen are the ones who take it too seriously. Very tribalistic, the type that ends up driving others out of their own fandom.

Gender politics seems to have infected everything, huh

Men tend to come across more blunt/straightforward and sceptical, while we're more subtle, more communal and more susceptible to emotional contagion. We spend more time on social media sites too, connecting with people.

I find these differences quite interesting from an evolutionary perspective.

Trolling, a pastime that I will never understand, is considered more masculine behaviour, because it's anti social. They have as much power as we give them on here imo.

I've seen completely normal opinions dismissed as trolling here though, so that word is losing meaning. A critical opinion (that you don't agree with) on a government decision is not trolling, it has to be said.

It's not just male GG stans comparing. Everyone does that. Women are very capable of comparing, I am one so I should know. And there are more of us. These groups, this industry, these aesthetics, are all basically designed to attract women.

I've been in conversations about prettiest female idols, best female rappers and dancers etc. with other BG stans. I swear everyone has similar sorts of opinions and expressions, we just direct them towards different people.

I've heard "why don't they show more skin?" from both a male fan towards a female idol and a female fan towards a male idol. The most sexually objectifying thing I've seen here about an idol was by a BG stan towards a male idol too. It goes both ways.

Girls also compare men in different categories when their favs are involved. I can't think of anything stupider to pit idols against each other with than luxury brand deals but that happens too, with male and female idols, by both genders.

Comparing female idols isn't in itself hateful but I think female groups and individuals do get scrutinised a bit more regarding their skills and their "scandals" compared to their male counterparts, for a couple of reasons imo but I won't go into it here.

When using the word 'misogyny' I think people need to be specific about what it is that they find problematic since that term is pretty much a buzzword now. It gets inserted absolutely everywhere in place of critical thought.

We know very well that if male fans went round saying "I hate women and GG" (which sounds like what the female GG stans who think being a GG stan is a feminist act say) that they'd be called misogynists. If that is the case, then the statement in your post in quotation marks should be considered misandrist.

It's either victimisation both ways, or it's not at all.

Better yet, just reflect on why you feel that way and talk about it. If you casually hate a whole gender then you have bigger problems on your hands.

Twitter is mostly army twitter for me, and I've seen the "I hate men, but not you baby" meme with a photo of a BTS member in it floating around on there. I don't think we'd let male stans do the gender reverse of this without consequence.

Fangirls and fanboys are both generalised, even outside of kpop. We zero in on the fangirl stuff I assume because most of us are girls and well, it's generally women's issues that are given mainstream attention and legitimacy. A lot of observations of "fangirls" have a lot of truth in them but it's a topic too sensitive to have a real dialectic about, especially on a kpop forum.

We should just stop caring and do our thing, it's not an inherently dirty word.

Heard both sides say the other likes the groups they like mainly because sexual attraction, plus fetishisation, so I don't see that as a misogynistic statement particularly even though it is considered as such.

Thanks for reading my essay.

I chose Lisa, guess I'm in the minority

This situation aside, I find it really hard to believe that this is a thing in kpop, that idol couples are like "let's post these particular photos of ourselves at the same time on our sm to tease fans teehee"

It sounds like something 15 year olds would do

Singing, dancing and rapping is 'triple threat' status I think?

True all rounders write as well, and play an instrument.

Quote from MissBehave

I didn't think you were doing that, queeenie. Sorry for the confusion. And I do agree that those are the motivations for some. I just have seen a lot of people making those kinds of arguments throughout this scandal and hopped on to your post to add my thoughts.

Also, I haven't seen you in forever!

It's okay, I wasn't perceiving it maliciously!

I wasn't actually wasn't criticising the people I described in the post, although I'm not sure if that was clear. Fans have the right to call out people who are in positions of immense privilege who are not what they are portrayed to be. It's just sad that they are that insanely (and falsely) idolised in the first place.

I have apprently been sleeping on harry styles because

Quote from onlyfacts

She was imo the worst singer in today's performance when her group sang live for the first time. Yes she has the disadvantage of singing the most lines but she was given those because of her technical abilities. The point is no matter how good technical skill of a singer is, it is very different when you have to dance while singing.

You mean this performance?

I think she was one of the most confident sounding, with chaewon being the most stable.

Might be due to some of them having quite low pitched lines, that's a little harder to do while dancing, plus it's a full vocal chorus.

I do feel a bit bad for girl groups tbh, they seem to have more upper body movements (for the guys it's a little more lower body) and so the flow of air is disrupted quite a lot.

I was really just talking about her singing and how being an idol will change that because, well, it's not really a priority in kpop. She'll become a very different type of performer.

I also know that technique matters as far as how you use it to enhance the emotional delivery of the song and how appropriately you apply it to a certain style/genre, and it's not the case that singing in a classical way means you'll sound the "best" in commercial music.

Quote from chounim

I think being an idol or a pop singer and a musical performer are two very different styles. It's even apparent when the switch is the other way around, as in when an idol becomes a musical actor. There some idols who do musicals (at least the ones that are actually good at it) and they sound very different in musicals from their idol selves. Maybe it's easier to do that switch, because of how flexible and varied kpop is, idols already get to try plenty of styles as is. Switching from musicals to pop music is probably harder, specially having to execute a dance routine at the same time. I think she just needs more time to adjust and gain experience and her true talent will eventually come through.

They are different styles for sure. Female opera singers don't really belt like in pop, for one. I've seen videos of opera singers being trained to belt. Although in kpop the belts are really mixed anyway.

But the advantage they might have is with their vibrato and other healthy vocal habits.

Some musicals are very dance-y like Cats and you have to sing and dance at the same time. Musical theatre actors generally do need to have really good stamina.

In the case of Yunjin, she seems to have studied opera specifically. I don't know her age but she is bound to be quite young and perhaps hasn't been able to study it for very long.

The first video is a few years old now I think about it. I looked it up and she became a pledis trainee in 2017, so she will have been doing "idol" singing for some time now.

I agree that it does take time to adjust, as with anything.

She's in Le sserafim, and judging from this she'll be the technically best singer in Hybe

There are advantages to being an idol of course but I can't help but feel her talent would be wasted there, that she wouldn't be able to reach her full potential artistically

I don't think I'll follow her closely but I wish her the best

Edit:

Well maybe I'll follow her a little...

She sounds lovely singing la vie en Rose

I love that song

Hybe don't ruin her voice I beg you

I don't know but maybe you'll like these

Has that rough kind of singing in the chorus

I like this version better

I think it is the best they have ever looked for concept photos. Genuinely.

Not a single one of them looks out of place or has strange hair or ill fitting outfits.

No gaudiness, but it's also not too plain. It works with the set. They look their age.

I remember people would get really upset when fans (or non fans) criticised outfits/concept photos, as if nothing BTS did was good enough for them and they were just hating on photos for fun. No, it's not a bad thing to have standards, and BTS and/or their team is clearly capable of putting together something aesthetically pleasing.

Quote from onlyfacts

People need to understand there is never wrong time. If not now then when? If not BTS, arguably the most known Asians on the planet who can also get alot people to not only tune in (hence learn the problem) but also talk about the issue, then who? The time is not the issue, the mindset like yours is.

252 mass shootings in the US in 144 days in 2022. That kid doesn't know what he is saying.

Not surprised with kpop fans reaction to this. The always somehow turn everything against BTS. CandyHeart said it the best.....

I want to make sure people don't downplay what just happened.

Look at the deaths and injuries involved in the shootings this year.

Now compare that to the shooting that happened in Texas and the one that happened the week before that.

This does not happen all the time. 10 killed in Buffalo last week, and now 21 killed in a school, 19 of them kids aged 10 and under.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

Not saying they should cancel everything because of this but yeah, it's understandable why the country is in mourning and also frustrated at the government.

Quote from onlyfacts

But no party involved has said that they are going to talk about only Asian American's issues. Everyone has maintained that BTS are visiting to talk about Asian representation and Anti Asian hate. And being arguably the most known Asians on the planet they do represent Asians on global level to an extent.

There is nothing specifically being mentioned about America except that they will be celebrating AANHPI heritage month when they will be there which is logical thing to do.

The anti asian hate part, I assume, is referring to the violent physical attacks happening in America. That is what the AANHPI community is really worried about I assume, their safety.

I'm not saying BTS shouldn't go, they're invited so why wouldn't they. When non political public figures, like entertainers, become involved in political events, these types of discussions always happen. Especially recently when social justice has become a form of social currency. It's really not just a kpop thing or a personal attack.

Quote from ohpuhlease

it doesn't change that they are Asians who are constantly subjected to hate and racism on a daily basis from Americans, American media and generally everywhere esp during the height of covid in 2020. asian hate isn't a sole American problem, it is a global problem. Going to speak on it in the WH gives a global exposure and coverage to this matter so i wouldn't say they are used to just improve optics and get a good pr here( esp since this isnt BTS's first time speaking out against social causes.

Yes, I'm actually agreeing with you, that is the purpose. Fans will probably watch the event, it will trend on twitter and the like. That's how they will try to improve perception in a time where people are very disillusioned with the state of things (and have a right to be, tbh).

I mean, they aren't american and don't live in America.

Feels like they're just being used to improve optics, considering how his presidency has gone so far.

It will be good pr for them I suppose.

Quote from MissBehave

That could be for some, but I think there's a lot of different reasons why people are on one side or the other. Imo it's a losing game trying to attribute motivations to people and its better to simply discuss their viewpoints. It seems like most start to examine the person rather than their statements mostly to try to win arguments, silence opposing views, or discredit anyone that doesn't see things the same way. That's why people will throw around terms like "haters", "jealous", "company stan", "oppolagist" etc even when posters have said their piece in reasonable ways. It diminishes the argument.

I do dislike ad hominems, and I think those words such as "haters" "antis" "oppoloigist" etc. are very overused. Can't disagree with you there, I know exactly how messy this stuff gets.

Of course people have their own personal values/politics/boundaries which come into play when deciding to support an artist.

I said some people will still want them off their pedestals, but my point was to consider the elevated position that idols are in, and that they're marketed towards teens. Not trying to silence or attack anyone, just discussing some context. If anything I was slightly defending your post.

Quote from Ves

It's your right to feel that way - she was convicted after all. However, there is a reason minors are usually punished differently than adults. I definitely do think minors should be made to know that there are consequences - and this is exactly the reason I support suing minors for toxic comments online.

However I also know the punishment for minors is usually rehabilitation because society, as I do, hopes and believes that our youth can be taught to be better. I don't believe these records on these minors should haunt them for the rest their lives - yes that includes those who were sued. This is why minors are usually recommended rehabilitation and these records are then sealed after several years.

I've seen several people say it's hypocritical to believe child bullies can change yet support minors being sued. It's really not. I feel that all should be held responsible for their actions, but also that minors can grow and change.

I agree that minors can change and grow, and the point about rehabilitation.

I think the other factor here is that we know, on some level at least, that the heightened adoration and dedication idols receive is due in large part to a very romanticised perception of their personalities and values, and the feeling of closeness they're expected to build with their fans.

They profit off their image as role models, not just performers, and role models specifically for young people.

Even if they have apologised or received a sentence, some people will still want them off that pedestal. The illusion is already broken, and it's difficult to know whether they have grown or not because you know it could just be image damage control.

When there are lots of other artists you can choose to spend your time/money on, and all this stuff is just a hobby, I think people simply don't want to take the risk with their conscience.

"You don't deserve that influence, that money, that celebrity lifestyle, those fan clubs that donate in your name and buy advertising to celebrate your birthday every year - those privileges are for better humans. Go earn a living another way, or go back to school."

That's what is underneath fans who want members out of groups.

It's the fans that get petty and hold weird grudges

The artists are luckily more well adjusted, and good for them

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