Treasure is evidence that the era of large groups have passed

What YG failed to understand when they tried to copy EXO in order to make Treasure was the market.

Exo debuted during the end of the second gen and the start of the third gen, making them, a 12 member boy group, very rare.

The reason this worked so well wasn't just because SM did a good job with picking the members and promoting, or because they came from a big 3 company, but also because the Kpop market at the time was still SMALL.

Nowadays with the oversaturated market of Kpop, with new groups debuting left, right, and center, nobody has the attention span for a group with more than 7 members anymore. Not even being from a big 3 company is enough to guarantee success anymore. Not even survival shows (Kep1ler).

That's why a 4th Gen group like Treasure failed.

3rd Gen was the Era of big groups like Seventeen, NCT, EXO, Twice having huge success.

The leaders of 4th Gen TXT, Enhyphen, Aespa, IVE all are 7 members or less and that's why it's easier to stan.

Agree?

for sure!

I don't even bother learning members names if a group has more than 8 people

I agree if aespa or itzy had 12 members they would not be as successful as they are now. And usually these big groups have 6 or 5 fillers that bring the talent level down. Like for twice 4 members could had been left out and group will still be huge.

No. Treasure is a bad example. YG promotes them horribly and everyone pretty much forgot about them after they debuted. While they were gone from the public’s eye for a year, other groups started to make more noise and gather a broader fanbase.

Treasure comeback

Non-fans:



Already so many threads lmao

YG doesn't even promote Treasure outside of their already existing fandom so it's a bad example. Hard to say if they failed too since the group is only 1 year old without comeback since their debut era. Some groups need more time to hit big just like it was for NCT despite their talent.

Quote from Stir-Fried Mint Quail (539)

No. Treasure is a bad example. YG promotes them horribly and everyone pretty much forgot about them after they debuted. While they were gone from the public’s eye for a year, other groups started to make more noise and gather a broader fanbase.

Treasure didn't make any noise even when they were being promoted actively and dropping albums left and right

Quote from Deep-Fried Red Whine Bear (981)

Treasure comeback

Non-fans:



Already so many threads lmao

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One poster was enough to make them all active on shading treasure.

Have they failed? I don't check for them, but last I heard their streams, sales and views were respectable. As long as they are making themselves and their company money they're fulfilling the brief. Some stans seem to think that if a group is not featuring in the fights about who is top of a generation they should just give up and work in a cafe...

You ignoring Stray Kids just because It doesn't fit your 7 members or less members narrative.

Quote from Simmered Pepper & Garlic Rabbit (38)

You ignoring Stray Kids just because It doesn't fit your 7 members or less members narrative.

Stray kids being the only group with more members to succeed nowadays and it's a group that debuted during the time larger groups were still the trend (wanna one, x1 etc),if they debuted today with that amount of members the scenario would have been different

Quote from Simmered Pepper & Garlic Rabbit (38)

You ignoring Stray Kids just because It doesn't fit your 7 members or less members narrative.

Since when is Stray Kidz 4th gen? For a second I actually thought you pointed out a mistake, but googling a look at their debut date (2017), they are a 3rd gen group and therefore the narrative is rightfully not about them. Might wanna re-read.

I see so many argue that they can't stan a group with more than 7 members because they can't tell anyone apart which honestly sounds borderline racist to me.

Quote from OP

Since when is Stray Kidz 4th gen? For a second I actually thought you pointed out a mistake, but googling a look at their debut date (2017), they are a 3rd gen group and therefore the narrative is rightfully not about them. Might wanna re-read.

What research have you been doing.

Stray Kids debuted on March 25th 2018..

Quote from Pressure-Cooked Salted Pigeon (849)

I see so many argue that they can't stan a group with more than 7 members because they can't tell anyone apart which honestly sounds borderline racist to me.

Not racist its a lot of faces to try t remember even Koreans themselves say this, for example they liked SM had each RV girl at debut dye her hair a different color and knetz said it helped tell them apart.

Everyone talks about NCT’s size but it promotes in its subunits (NCT Dream, NCT 127, WayV), which are 7-9 members each.

If people don’t care about a group, they won’t remember the members. It’s that simple. It’s not the number.

Quote from OP

Since when is Stray Kidz 4th gen? For a second I actually thought you pointed out a mistake, but googling a look at their debut date (2017), they are a 3rd gen group and therefore the narrative is rightfully not about them. Might wanna re-read.

agree . Think about it skz only have less than 2 years gap with BP (debuted on august 2016)

or maybe bc yg isn't promoting their ROOKIE group during this literal 4th gen battle on who is leading the generation????

Quote from OP

Since when is Stray Kidz 4th gen? For a second I actually thought you pointed out a mistake, but googling a look at their debut date (2017), they are a 3rd gen group and therefore the narrative is rightfully not about them. Might wanna re-read.

They debuted in 2018. And they are pretty much considered a 4th gen/new generation group by any korea media's article you search about them. There's a reason why their members were also representing 4th gen along with other groups during year-end events last year.

Quote from Brined Pasta & Pork (719)

What research have you been doing.

Stray Kids debuted on March 25th 2018..

according to google they have been active since 2017, but upon closer look they had a reality show around then. Either way, I would put them more toward 3rd gen, especially since they debuted only 3 months into 2018. As well as the fact that, depending on who you ask, 2018 is also considered 3rd gen as well.

I'm talking about real 4th gen groups. Groups that debuted around 2017-2018 experienced a different market to now.

Quote from Pickled Mint & Orange Bear (675)

Stray kids being the only group with more members to succeed nowadays and it's a group that debuted during the time larger groups were still the trend (wanna one, x1 etc),if they debuted today with that amount of members the scenario would have been different

I think It would be understandable If they had blew up back when these groups were successful. But their breakthrough song that gave them a boost in popularity was in the middle of 2020.

Groups like LOONA, Seventeen, and NCT (just to name a few) are still popular though. Yall just be saying anything

evidence that the era of yg relevance have passed*

Quote from Brined Pasta & Pork (444)

Groups like LOONA, Seventeen, and NCT (just to name a few) are still popular though. Yall just be saying anything

That wasn't even my point....

Those are literally ALL third gen groups you named.

My point is that groups debuting NOW or within fourth Gen will struggle more to gain success with large membered groups compared to their third gen counterparts because of how different the market is now compared to three or four years ago.

The whole point is that third gen groups or groups that debuted before 2019 ARE successful BECAUSE having a large group was a popular trend during that era that was not difficult to gain successful.

But now the trend is dying because more and more people are exhausted of super large groups or don't have the patience to stan a brand new group with 8+ members.

Quote from Seared Creamy Duck (380)

evidence that the era of yg relevance have passed*

Actually this.

YG has no clue about what to do with Treasure. They were actually supposed to debut as 2 separated groups at first, then they got combined into one large group later because one member left & YG got financial trouble in 2019.

I'm pretty sure if SM debuted a large boy group in 4th gen they would still do well because SM knows how to handle large groups with decades of experience.

Quote from OP

according to google they have been active since 2017, but upon closer look they had a reality show around then. Either way, I would put them more toward 3rd gen, especially since they debuted only 3 months into 2018. As well as the fact that, depending on who you ask, 2018 is also considered 3rd gen as well.

I'm talking about real 4th gen groups. Groups that debuted around 2017-2018 experienced a different market to now.

What bullshit.

Stray Kids are not only a big company group who've always been used to measure the start of a generation, but their stats also put them in 4th gen

Quote from Brined Pasta & Pork (444)

Groups like LOONA, Seventeen, and NCT (just to name a few) are still popular though. Yall just be saying anything

Loona isn't popular at all, nobody outside their fandom cares about them. Nct promotes in sub units, it's never the 20+ of them so people stan different units and stuff. Seventeen is the only large group nowadays that is popular,Twice too. And they're all third gen groups that existed at the time where large groups were the trend.

Yes, groups of four or five far more manageable

YG failing at managing their groups doesn't really prove much though

Quote from Pickled Mint & Orange Bear (675)

Loona isn't popular at all, nobody outside their fandom cares about them. Nct promotes in sub units, it's never the 20+ of them so people stan different units and stuff. Seventeen is the only large group nowadays that is popular,Twice too. And they're all third gen groups that existed at the time where large groups were the trend.

NCT127 and twice have the same amount of members

Quote from Brined Mustard & Thyme Horse (553)

NCT127 and twice have the same amount of members

Okay? Nct is also popular but my point was that they don't promote as 20 people like someone previously claimed

I never got the appeal of big groups anyway, that's why i was never into Exo, Seventeen, W1 and now Treasure. I don't have a big enough heart to love that many members. I even find it hard to love all 5 or 7 members equally in my biased groups. Imagine seeing my bias fighting for the line distributions, spotlights amongst 12 members. What a pain.

Stray Kids out here stomping the views, streams and sales of any and every 4th gen boy group.

Don't start with this, not 4th gen crap when they specifically started dominating new ear groups in around 2020.

Quote from Pickled Mint & Orange Bear (675)

Okay? Nct is also popular but my point was that they don't promote as 20 people like someone previously claimed

Twice experienced their biggest international growth in 2021 though? We have stats showing domestic and Japanese interest fell and Spotify/Apple streams, international charting, touring, US sales, radio play, etc all went up.

If this was from their old previously established fans and now people who are just getting into Kpop who, according to you, aren't interested in large groups that would mean any and all growth is contradictory to your point?

I mean Twice, Seventeen, NCT, Stray Kids, etc all experienced some form of fandom growth in the last 1-2 years so why would they be picking up new fans right now if people weren't interested in large groups?

I think you're confusing the narrative of what companies are interested in rather than fans as looking at the top 10 most successful and popular acts RIGHT NOW, no in the future, no generational separation, no BS just pure success in the here and now we have, in no order.

BlackPink

BTS

NCT

Twice

Seventeen

Stray Kids

Itzy

Aespa

TXT

Exo(?)

5 have 7 or less members and 5 have 7 or more members, correct me if wrong. So it seems to me people should stop trying to dictate what fans do and don't like since the facts clearly show large groups are still massively popular.

Quote from Smoked Fennel & Lime Mutton (290)

Actually this.

YG has no clue about what to do with Treasure. They were actually supposed to debut as 2 separated groups at first, then they got combined into one large group later because one member left & YG got financial trouble in 2019.

I'm pretty sure if SM debuted a large boy group in 4th gen they would still do well because SM knows how to handle large groups with decades of experience.

This

Quote from Stewed Mustard & Thyme Yak (593)

Twice experienced their biggest international growth in 2021 though? We have stats showing domestic and Japanese interest fell and Spotify/Apple streams, international charting, touring, US sales, radio play, etc all went up.

If this was from their old previously established fans and now people who are just getting into Kpop who, according to you, aren't interested in large groups that would mean any and all growth is contradictory to your point?

I mean Twice, Seventeen, NCT, Stray Kids, etc all experienced some form of fandom growth in the last 1-2 years so why would they be picking up new fans right now if people weren't interested in large groups?

I think you're confusing the narrative of what companies are interested in rather than fans as looking at the top 10 most successful and popular acts RIGHT NOW, no in the future, no generational separation, no BS just pure success in the here and now we have, in no order.

BlackPink

BTS

NCT

Twice

Seventeen

Stray Kids

Itzy

Aespa

TXT

Exo(?)

5 have 7 or less members and 5 have 7 or more members, correct me if wrong. So it seems to me people should stop trying to dictate what fans do and don't like since the facts clearly show large groups are still massively popular.

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You're acting like twice had some major blow up when the only thing they improved in is us charting. They already built up the stable fandom years ago and the change of concept for the past years is what gained them some more fans. Izone was also doing awesome until they had to disband in 2021. X1 was also doing awesome in 2019. That's what you can't understand,groups that debuted years ago when the trend was large groups will continue being successful nowadays because they already have built up the large fandoms long ago.

My point is proven easily by taking a look at the results all those larger groups that debut now show in comparison to smaller groups. That alone makes the conversation we're having meaningless

Quote from Tenderized Tomatoes & Pork (818)

What bullshit.

Stray Kids are not only a big company group who've always been used to measure the start of a generation, but their stats also put them in 4th gen

The generation dates are always up for dispute. I never thought of Stray Kidz as 4th gen because they debuted so long ago and are a product of that era. Even if they blew up a few years later they've literally been building their fan base since (2017) and debuted early 2018, literally the era I am referring to. At best I'll give it to you that they may have been the last boy group of that era and are on the cusp, but that's about it. They still don't qualify.

Maybe you stays or whatever you stray kidz fans are called are mad about the fact that I didn't include them along with TXT or Enhyphen as leaders of the 4th gen, but this isn't a thread to wank about your faves success.

We are in 2022. How the heck do you look at a group that's been active since 2017 and say they are the same as groups debuting around 2020? But wte.

You're using 1 example of evidence to make blanket statement.

Now I'm going to use 1 more example. The Boyz currently have 11 members and debuted with 12. The Boyz are doing pretty well for not being Big 4, though Cre.ker got bought out by Kakao-which is bigger than the Big 4.

Quote from Smoked Fennel & Lime Mutton (290)

Actually this.

YG has no clue about what to do with Treasure. They were actually supposed to debut as 2 separated groups at first, then they got combined into one large group later because one member left & YG got financial trouble in 2019.

I'm pretty sure if SM debuted a large boy group in 4th gen they would still do well because SM knows how to handle large groups with decades of experience.

Quote from Pickled Mint & Orange Bear (675)

You're acting like twice had some major blow up when the only thing they improved in is us charting. They already built up the stable fandom years ago and the change of concept for the past years is what gained them some more fans. Izone was also doing awesome until they had to disband in 2021. X1 was also doing awesome in 2019. That's what you can't understand,groups that debuted years ago when the trend was large groups will continue being successful nowadays because they already have built up the large fandoms long ago.

My point is proven easily by taking a look at the results all those larger groups that debut now show in comparison to smaller groups. That alone makes the conversation we're having meaningless

Except no stop the lies it doesn't serve to strengthen your point, it in fact has the opposite effect.

In 2020 Twice had their biggest sales at 590k with M&M the 2 following releases failed to match that, however they just sold 810k albums with their last album, I Can't Stop Me and The Feels became their longest running MVs with over 1m daily views passing all of Likeys records, The Feels is still on Spotify top 100 for more than 3 to 4 times more days than their songs from years back like Fancy and Feel Special.

They had their best YouTube, Spotify, Apple, radio play, US charting, sales all in the last 6 months so no it isnt just the US.

In fact so far only TT has performed better in Japan than the Feels.

Time to wake up and admit your point got dismantled with facts and numbers.