The lack of value of idols in the industry and how fans contribute

I think a lot of people do not get that idols are like any product with a short product life cycle due to frequent changing and volatile nature of the k-pop genre. Would I call it lack of value? No, that’s definitely not the case. I would just refrain from saying something lacks value when people are obviously buying it and the brand value is obviously there. I would just say that due to nature of groups debuting 3-5 years after their company senior that the product life cycle of each band except those who break through this customer acquisition and loyalty chain is very short.

I wouldn’t necessarily blame the consumer entirely since this heavily supported by the general status-quo of the market.

It is not just idols. Even western pop artists are not taken seriously and seen as product of time. Barely pop artists transcended that description.

Smart ones like Rihanna open other things and became major businesspersons. Others become has beens

but how is that different from any other unknown product that carries a brand name only

for example there are so many kickstarter projects based on the reputation alone of the creator or designer or whatever...but no finished product

there are many times projects are greenlit based solely on the actors/actresses/directors etc without a finished project alone in movies or tv shows or whatever

kpop isn't an exception it's the same old same old...all one really has is reputation and if as a company you can levy that reputation to sell 60K or so of a new GG good on the company but I certainly didn't buy into it but it's also not my place to tell others how they want to spend their money if they want to...

Quote from stan12345

Was going to post about this in another thread but thought I'd just make a new thread.

Stanning brands (i.e. different labels) in kpop isn't an unknown thing and it can lead to groups having a lot of support/fans before debut. This isn't too surprising if groups have a TV show/have had members teased for years. But seeing the new tactic JYPE have undertaken really puts into perspective why the value and lifespan of idols on average is so low and subsequently why its damaging. Not just at a kpop level but even with regards to the public in SK, idols are near the bottom of the ladder against actors, variety stars, non-kpop soloists/groups etc.

They're not massively respected outside of a few with the public as so many groups get churned out so often that there's a limited identity to them outside of an odd viral song/dance.

The sales of the unreleased gg at JYPE is an example of why idols are devalued within kpop and I'll use JYPE in my example as they take full advantage of that with this new tactic. Why would any large company value their idols (on average) when they can put a no-name/member group out with nothing announced and sell 60k off the bat? If JYPE can sell 60k for a group no-one knows nothing about think about what the other bigger companies could do.

Day6 for example have spent 6 years building a fanbase with a lot of work/releases to sell 100k for the first time this year. You then get a new girl group that people know nothing about other than them being from JYPE who already sell more than half of that, without a debut. You don't know the size of the group, the concept, the members etc.

If you're JYPE, when it comes to negotiating Day6/ the members renewals, where does that leave the group in terms of bargaining power? The pure supply of idols into the industry already makes it a low value position. So by now selling completely unknown groups how disposable does that make idols look? it doesn't matter if they sing the kind of music you like, if they're good performers etc.

Not even Day6 but lets say Twice don't fully renew but some want to stay on as soloists. Not every Twice member as a soloist is selling 100k or is going to be a hit with the public so their stock is already down. The company then also has the knowledge that instead of giving 2/3 members nice deals (which they'd be more than entitled to go for), they can just put out a girl group in 6 months time and replace the revenue those 3 members would bring in. That new girl group is also 7 years worth of income who you can give a pittance to as they have near zero negotiating power as rookies.

There's already limited loyalty between companies and their idols and fans supporting projects such as this Blind Package just accentuates that.

I know it's just business but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's bad for idols in general that fans support such endeavors. Kpop fans complain about the short lifespan of idols, the 7 year curse, why idols leave to pursue solo careers etc without realising they are a big contributor towards that.

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Thank you for taking time to write this. It was a good read.

Quote from stan12345

What has products got to do with how real people are valued? The fact that you think like that just shows the lack of identity idols possess.

Your film analogy is not the same as a story will be greenlit and the public will know about it. When you're pre-ordering a game or a cinema ticket the knowledge gap is so much smaller.

but idols are products of the company...which is no different than how a lot of companies treat their own employees no?

there may be a lot of good companies out there but there are also a lot of bad ones who treat their employees like shit (the latest example is Blizzard lol) how idols are treated is in this respect no different...

only those films that are released will the public know for every film released there may be lots that are unreleased or never make it to filming or production though...

I agree with the bolded part

Quote from stan12345

The company strategies are dictated by the market and in kpops case fandoms dictate most things. Why do you think the short life cycle exists in the first place? It's more cost-effective to put out something new with minimal effort as fans will eat it up rather than going to the negotiating table with senior idols who'd want more.

If you've worked 5 years at a job and your bargaining power has barely increased as a new grad could bring in just as much would you say you're valued? Brand value is not the same as the value of idols on their own.

I think you are too focused on the aspect that idols are humans but for the companies they are not like internal company employees. They are externally products for them as in service provider for third parties (fans or gp).

I said to not only blame the consumer since the market is also ruled by big companies who influence the costumer and have positions (oligopoly) in which they can also influence the market and all its participants. This could be seen by innovations where there was no obvious need by the consumer. Also the legal and contract status-quo isn’t shaped by the consumer. Another example is their tight connection towards the government (lobby work).

Also, what does bargaining power have anything to do with brand or product value? Each group still has a certain USP and value proposition compared to their next generation. After a decrease of popularity the primary question of these companies isn’t to increase it rather the question on how they can sustain the achieved value. Products come and go. That‘s very normal. A normal product cycle is around the time a K-Pop group is active. One can rebrand which a lot of 2nd gen groups did or disband. This is the nature of the industry and has nothing to do with lack of value.

Fantastic reads, thanks guys🤛🏻.

You're making the assumption that album sales are the primary source of income / value that idols bring to the company. And hence their bargaining power is based on their ability to sell albums, which, as you point out, is easily-replicable with even a no-name group, based on the reputation of the company.

But that's a questionable assumption at best. The real money comes from touring, and depending on the company's branding and marketing strategy, perhaps adverts / sponsorships as well. Those are very much dependent on the idol's built-up reputation with the public and their fanbase. A no-name group's initial sales may rely on the reputation of the company and its' company fans, but the concert ticket sales largely rests on the reputation and fanbase of the idols themselves, while sponsorship deals rely on both idol and company.

EDIT: And merch. Let's not forget merchandise. For example, in 2017, it was reported that BTS, EXO and TWICE are estimated to be worth 10 billion won each in merchandise sales. And in 2018, an article came out that reported the combined sales of SM, JYP and YG for albums and digital music content reached 76.69 billion won in the first half of 2018. But their combined sales from merchandise, royalties and other fees reached 105.44 trillion won in the same period. Merchandising is another revenue stream that is heavily-dependent on the idol's built up fanbase as well, and not on the company's reputation. So that strengthens the idol's bargaining power over the company

Quote from stan12345

So do you think those employees feel valued? Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that supply is one of the reasons for them being devalued (like it would be in jobs such as retail where there's a large unskilled workforce), but these idols build up their own value in a way an office worker don't and directly contribute to the bottom line.

Their bargaining power relatively speaking should be more than an officer worker. The bad perception of idols still exists in SK because companies have lower and lower barriers of entry as they can sell most things.

Companies can literally put out a nameless group now and do well. That for me is a direction where the industry becomes more and more of a joke and idols worth less and less. Idols that have spent years building careers can now be replaced and outdone by a group with nothing to them. YG, SM and JYPE used to put a lot of effort into marketing their debuts with shows, features beforehand etc. But now they can afford to do none of that.

I'm not understanding your film point - how are consumers dictating whether a film makes it to the finish line or not? A popular story/script comes about, will get greenlit, it could fall away for multiple reasons. I'm not seeing the comparison.

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but they aren't getting valued - my point is idols are treated no different depending on the whims of the company...and there are good and bad companies...and employees can be treated like shit even if they are top performing or management or execs...a company can still treat them like shit...

my point ultimately is idols are thus no different than other employees...or artists...I mean just because someone works really hard doesn't mean success...shitty people and shitty organisations occur no matter the industry...I mentioned blizzard because it's in the news right now but another example might be the US women's gymnastics team and the failure to deal with that predator who might have destroyed so many young athlete's lives and scarred them forever...

as to the next bold part I agree with you in part but that's the same though in the entire asian entertainment industry no? I mean I only know some of the Chinese industry but it's the same no? movie actors are top then drama actors and other musicians like soloists and stuff and Chinese idols are the bottom of the food chain???

as to the last paragraph I can't remember what my point was either lol - maybe just to state for JYP's NGG situation that there are examples of unknown products sold based purely on a company or a person's reputation alone...my kickstarter examples is probably better here...

Quote from stan12345

I'm not only blaming the consumer - the title of thread is how they contribute towards it.

How is the legal and contract status quo not shaped by the consumer? You literally call them external products which would insinuate you know their value comes from the consumption of said product. if a no-name group can bring 60k worth of consumption already what does that do to veteran idols value within a company? Companies also willingly divert money away from older groups that are still successful which makes any longevity for them all that much harder. Doesn't matter if you're someone like Got7 or Twice.

Success for things such as the Blind package just further unbalances the power dynamics as it's a further signal to the large companies they can get away with perpetuating the cycle.

Lets say you're due a promotion at your job but a grad walks in and within a week nearly brings in as much money as you whilst being on half your wages already. How does that not weaken your position? Especially in a smaller environment such as a pop agency?

Quoting JYP himself album sales dictate how much fans will spend which will then flow through to the more profitable aspects such as tours. Even if half the fans that have already committed monetarily continue being fans they've got that initial commitment from producing near nothing at all.

Going back to my Twice point - do you think solo members will be touring well on their own? Or the members outside of 2/3 will be getting big endorsements?

Things such as the Blind package are not good for the industry/idols. The big three privilege is one thing where before they would flex their connections, have tv shows, put them in cf's, feature them in popular artists song etc to build a fanbase pre-debut. But this Blind Package thing is just another level.

It is optically poor as it massively re-enforces how replaceable idols are (/what's needed to have some success) as you don't even need to know their names, talents or concept anymore for them to sell.

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Are you familiar with Boston Consulting groups portfolio analysis?

Cash cows with high market value and little growth pays for the new entries etc.

It’s marketing🤷‍♀️.

The bling package - you think it will stay or he just needed to sell 60 k?

Next time this gimmick wont work.

Inshallah

Quote from stan12345

Yes but they're mostly not getting valued due to supply. The barriers to supply in the kpop industry is low because fans are so easy to please and will buy 60k from a group they know nothing about.

Is it too different compared to when people buy debut albums just looking at the faces of idols? They don't know how the music will be either other than the faces. Jyp did great marketing. It's amusing.

I'm not an expert on the business talk part, so won’t comment that, but I agree that it isn’t a good thing for idols that this strategy from JYP is working - and the „fans“ who already „bought“ that are strange in my eyes…

Isn’t this just a case of company stans??

I mean it is true idols are the least respected celebrities in Korea and they are treated like a product due to their “shelf life” but I don’t think this is a great example to support that point.