aespa won the "Best Streaming Song" at the "Korea Grand Music Awards" and this should be the new standard!

You're probably asking: What the hell is he even talking about? 😂

I'm talking about the category itself, not aespa. Every mainstream Kpop Award show should add the "Best Streaming" category, so actual artists can win the REAL "Song of the Year", "Album of the Year", "Artist of the Year", and "Music Video of the Year" categories.

We all know every Award shows giving awards for the most popular ones, even tho 90% of the time those aren't even close to being the best, and the best ones getting ignored because they don't have enough streams or sales or didn't Chart.

Do you agree?

Quote from TwiceKaren

I voted no mostly because who decides what the best song is? that 1 guy or all the people streaming a song that even if that one guy doesn't like most of the people do

So you think just because a song topped the charts or have 1B streams and views on Youtube, it means everyone loved it?

Come on now. Hire actual producers who know what's good or not. I know it's about personal taste, but it's very easy (for an actual producer or musician) to understand which song is better in terms of production: composition, lyrics, arrangement etc.

Quote from TwiceKaren

I feel it is a tricky question, one can say for example objectively Taeyeon is a better singer than Hyoyeon, and while there are standars in songs too i feel personal preference matters more there, like i for example like Sunny's voice the most in SNSD but i would never call her a better vocalist than Tayeon, on the other hand to me Armaggedon is Aespa's best song but it's harder to decided objectively why is a better song than say whiplash

Because "Armageddon" is a MUCH BETTER produced song, and "Whiplash" is just another repetitive Tiktok nonsense.

If people can put aside their fandom brain and actually start thinking critically (critical thinking in Kpop is dead btw) even if they're not producers they can understand why X song is better than Y.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

"actual artists"

Shut up, David.

Well honey, like it or not, at least 90% of Idols are not real artists, they're being called IDOLS for a reason.

Quote from SooYoung

But if a lot of people stream a song

Doesn't this mean that all these people like the song ?

And if so many people stream a song more thab all the other songs release doesn't it means that this song receive the most love and it's the best song of the year in conclusion ?

No, because the most streamed songs are ALWAYS from a mainstream group or soloist with hundreds of millions of playlisting. Meanwhile, nugu artists doesn't have 10M, so the competition is unfair. Not that it's a new thing.

Back in the first 2 generation, popular artists won many Awards too, but the difference is that they actually released decent music.

Like, even tho SONE and Blackjacks were fighting, we all know both groups released good music. But now, everyone releases the same boring Tiktok crap and the payola is on another level.

Quote from CaraFIMIE

Personal preference does matter but not when quality is in question.

When you're talking about which is "best," quality should be a higher priority. But it often isn't because people like what they like regardless of quality and if feel like what David is trying to say is that SOTY should be based on the song's quality and not simply which one has the most streams or goes viral or whatever.

Exactly my point, yes! The "SOTY" should be given to the best produced song, not the most popular ones. For example, Rose deserve the Grammy nom? Hell no! And I really like that song because it's fun. "GOLDEN" deserve the nom? Hell no! It's another decent pop song we've heard millions of times.

If the song can do both, I don't care, that's great, but we don't see that often.

Honestly, even tho multiple of my faves released songs this year, I'm not even sure which one I would pick for SOTY. Not even a MAMAMOO member, maybe Hwasa's "Good Goodbye" because that song is amazing, meaningful and well-produced. Most of the song I would choose is probably a b-side anyway.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

And yet you're convinced some of them are "self-made."

Well, if they make their own music since day 1, they're self-made. You're just too ignorant to accept it. And I already told you it's not only about producing their own songs, they do everything. How is that not self-made?

And you still didn't provide any evidence, why should I believe you.

Quote from monalisalove

I don't agree bc in the end of the day what you think it's the best may be different from what I think it's the best and this same logic can be applied to the judges of those awards shows.

While being popular gives you a way higher chance to win an award this doesn't make it invalid, the world is like this, if you are "nugu" you'll have to fight harder in any aspect of life, not just in kpop, but in the end of the day kpop for us is literally a hobby so don't stress too much acting like YOUR efforts were neglected when you helped a total of 0% in MMM career as in bts with music production, etc.

I'm not talking about myself.

If Award shows hire actual industry people, like producers, writers etc, they could easily tell you why X song is better than Y.

I'm not saying popular soloists or groups shouldn't win anything, but the fact is, 99% of these Awards (not only in Kpop) are made for mainstream.

I'm not stressing at all, I'm only saying there should be a category like this for popular groups and an actual SOTY, AOTY for others. If Korea can debut a new Award show every year, they can add more categories too.

I mean, didn't they do that so Allday Project can win something?😂

Not sure why did you mention MMM, it's not about them or me, this is about every lesser known artists. There's like 1 Korean Award show that actually give awards to them.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

But they're not real artists. Gotcha.

Display Spoiler

Your faves don't "do everything." Stop lying, because no one's buying it.

Someone please call the ambulance, this guy need a padded room. Let's hope the room won't get bored with trolling face.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

I'm crazy for pointing out your obvious hypocrisy in how you view Kpop artists? I'm the consistent one here. You just don't like it when your faves aren't held up on a golden pedestal above the unartistic masses.

Why am I hypocrite? Because I said MAMAMOO is a Self-Made group, but not your TWICE with the 20 credits?

MAMAMOO has like 250 songs and they have 230+ credits overall.

TWICE has like 400 songs and 50 credits overall or so and that's all. MAMAMOO not only have credits, but they are involved in everything else not just music.

I don't give a shit about the masses mate. They're ignorant fools like you.

You're just talking but you still didn't provide any evidence why MAMAMOO is not a self-made group.

There's a difference between Kpop ARTISTS and Kpop IDOLS btw. Learn the difference.

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

Let's ask their company, who created them -- the same as any other Kpop idol group -- whether Mamamoo are Kpop "idols" or self-made artists [insert pompous chortle here.] I wonder what they'll say.

I swear, when I have time, I will find you the video where the CEOs say, they didn't do shit, they made RBW not the other way around, just like YG said that about Bigbang btw. Also, read some Korean articles, beucase pretty much every platform reffers to RBW as: "MAMAMOO's company."😂

MAMAMOO was on another level before debut, just because RBW hired them, doesn't mean shit. It's like saying, if you're hired by a company, it's their achievement and not yours.

Watch Queendom season 1 btw, and see what other Idols say, and not only them, but industry people on every Variety show. They always say, MAMAMOO is not an Idol group, they're ARTISTS!

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

That doesn't mean what you think it means. BTS "made" Hybe. That doesn't mean Hybe didn't put them together and handle everything for them in their early years, the same as any idol group. These groups are all manufactured. Your "artists" are no different.

Have you ever worked for a company? If you work in most creative fields, they will literally say this in your contract and take credit for whatever you create under their employment.

I fail to see how they were "on another level" before debut. No one even knew who they were before debut.

You couldn't be a bigger ignorant, even if you try.

Just because RBW and Bighit put them together, doesn't mean they're not self-made.

I worked for many companies, I work in this industry for almost 2 decades. Just because a company take credit for my work, doesn't mean I'm not a self-made artist. It's like saying Van Gogh wasn't self-made because someone bought his painting.

I follow MAMAMOO before their debut pal, read the articles about them. You can't find a bigger LEGEND than Quincy Jones, who praised them and said they're gonna be big even before their debut when he had his concert in Korea.

Read this, and please shut the hell up!

RBW CEO Shares Stories Behind MAMAMOO's Debut

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You can watch Queendom here and see how other people talking about them. You know, there's a reason why the industry says: "MAMAMOO did MAMAMOO" or the 3rd: "BeLisMAMAMOO".

QUEENDOM S1

You should also watch their docu as well and learn some history.

MMM - "WAWN" Docu

And watch this video too for behind infos and actual footage of them doing their job that not many Idols do.

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This is your JYP daddy about MAMAMOO, btw. 🤣

This is the guy who basically made IU! And he's being called MMM's uncle, because he can't stop praising them.

I think I said enough, you can stay ignorant if you want, if you wanna argue, come here with actual evidence why everyone is wrong and you're right.

Quote from jeyikal307

No they don't. They have something like 220 if you don't include remixes, instrumentals, other-language-versions of songs they already recorded, and features like Mamushi and We Pray.

Which is moot anyway, because your initial claim was that Twice members write maybe every two years or so. Obviously not true. There are entire releases, like Feel Special and Taste of Love, where every single b-side is written by the members.

I think something like 30% of Twice songs had a Twice member as a primary lyricist before 2025. The primary non-Korean language releases of 2025 have knocked that number down.

They've had more than 300 songs on Melon in 2023. I'm pretty sure they don't have 100 remixes and instrumentals.

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You can see their stats on KOMCA, I wrote down their stats. I didn't mention TWICE btw, that was their ignorant and crazy fanboy above.😂

Here, all of their credits: This is 107 credit overall, and let's not even mention the fact that most of their songs have at least 5 writers and producers. That's why I said they don't have big involvments in the production. Especially in the past couple of years.

Chaeyoung: 27

Dahyun :21

Jihyo: 20

Nayeon: 12

Sana: 9

Jeongyeon: 8

Momo: 8

Mina: 6

Tzuyu: 5

Quote from Popper-of-Ks

Thanks for proving my point. Your idols were given an "artist" CONCEPT by their company and you fell for it so hard that you actually now believe they aren't manufactured Kpop idols. Wow.

What point? You never made a single point in this thread, you're just crying like a dumbass child in a store who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas. 🤣

Literally everyone who talks about MAMAMOO they refer to them as Artists not Idols since their debut. Starting from their own CEO, other producers, musicians, dance choreographers, Idols, and other industry people. Not to mention Legendary Korean artists who MAMAMOO competed with on "Immortal Songs 2" btw.

For the record, MAMAMOO is one of the few groups in Kpop that is not manufactured, that's why many people hate them first, because they never act like real Idols you dumbass. They're not fake like 99% of Kpop Idols.

I'm pretty sure you didn't watch any of the video evidence I showed you, but I don't really care, I don't have to convince an ingorant token TWICE stan about anything.

Anway, I'm done, there's no point arguing about something you don't know anything about. You don't even know your own faves. 😂

Quote from jeyikal307

Sigh.

No. I gave you the accurate number.

Here is all of their songs listed on Spotify:

https://kworb.net/spotify/arti…Beij7Dj7meI4X0_songs.html

But to save you counting, here is Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…f_songs_recorded_by_Twice

They list 257 songs, of which 33 are other-language-versions (Japanese and English versions of Korean songs usually).

So 224 original songs.

However, among that count, if you look, is included Megan Thee Stallion's Mamushi, Coldplay's We Pray, Saweetie's Superstars, and Takedown by Jihyo/Chaeyoung/Jeongyeon. Remove those and you get... 220.

Edit: And yes! They actually do have a lot of remixes and instrumentals. 76 remixes/"versions" (which includes language versions), and 31 instrumentals by my count. Verify for yourself, look at that Kworb list and CTRL+F "remix", "ver" and "inst" and see what you get. See?

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You do realize you can find more songs on Korean platforms than on Western ones right? This is Spoti if I remove English, Japanese versions, instrumentals and remixes. 250 songs.

Also why the hell we should remove songs in different languages? Are those not part of their discog or something? Like, this is such a ridiculous argument.

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MAMAMOO also have other releases and they have credits on those. Removing some songs from TWICE to make their stats better is nonsense.

To be honest, I don't get why this thread became a MAMAMOO vs TWICE when that wasn't my point at all. That idiot Pooper brought this up for no reason.

Quote

They have a lot of songs where they are the sole lyricists.

I linked you to one of such releases before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste_of_Love_(EP)

No co-writers on any of the songs they wrote the lyrics for. For a more recent one, there's With You-th, where half of the songs have Twice members as sole lyricists. At most, there is usually one other person on lyrics when a Twice member writes, and the Twice members are usually the ones listed first. IE, the primary lyricists.

Yeah, this is not true at all. You can literally see the credits on Spotify or any other streaming platform. They have credits on 3 songs in the "With You-th" EP, but they're not SOLE writers or even Main-Writers, you can find multiple other writers on every song.

Use a proper platform not Wikipedia for the love of God.

This is why I don't like to argue with Kpop stans, you don't do research properly.

Quote

This is why in that Reddit post, they rank high when it comes to primary lyricists - because whoever created that list was filtering out idols that are listed among half a dozen other writers, or not listed as the first writer, etc.

No, they made that list based on Wikipedia, that's why it's incorrect.

Quote

You clearly don't know much about Twice. They are involved. From the song selection, to the line distribution and recording, to the general concept for every album, they're involved in all that stuff. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that they're entirely self-made artists or anything, but I'm also not going to let you spin some sort of weird un-reality where Twice "write a song maybe once every two years" and JYPE does everything without their input. That just isn't the case.

You don't get to just re-write reality to downplay Twice in order to lift up your faves, like, come on dude.

I don't know much about TWICE? I was a fan before most of you even heard about them. I was following JYP groups when TWICE were in kindergarten, probably.

You can do whatever you want, I don't care. It's nothing new that Kpop stans are delulu.

I didn't downplay TWICE, I didn't even mention them. Your toxic pal did that. The topic is not even about them. Your Poop friend get triggered because I said MAMAMOO is a self-made group.