Posts by AmmaAffa

Quote from daniel-cruz

Honestly don't care much about the whole thread but....

One interesting point :-

- A fandom who wants everyone to acknowledge a group paving the way (And rightfully so. Because I genuinely think BTS deserves major credit for paving the way in the west, nobody can deny that.)....

And at the same time, Some individuals from that very fandom wants to gatekeep the way and try to belittle other groups who are trying to promote in the west.

You want examples :-

Enter at your risk... Don't get mad at the facts... Sorry for bringing some groups into this to emphasize my point.

1. When NCT started promoting and going to talk shows, preforming at Rodeo Houston and AMAs.... The outpouring negative reaction from that group of people was kinda surprising to me at first since it was my first time encountering that behavior.

2. When SuperM was formed.... They WERE SEETHING. It's like someone killed their dog. I was very much there... I have seen hate tweets getting thousands of likes belittling SuperM and being vile towards them.

Getting #1 on BB200 and that whole week after that was ABSOLUTE HELL. SuperM didn't cheat... They used BUNDLES (Something that almost everyone in the western music industry uses or has used in the past).

3. Recently, Stray Kids getting #1 on BB200... As always the loudest of the bunch were the same individuals that we are talking about and my god... Even Billboard releasing the clarification is not clearing up the misinformation spread because whenever I see some non-fans from that group of people are talking about SKZ and their #1, they always call them "FRAUD"... If that ain't brainwashing then I don't know what this is.

4. Monsta X releasing English album was another instance.

As you can see from this examples..... Wants everyone's acknowledgement but doesn't want to leave others alone who are peacefully promoting in the west. You can't have both things. If you want everyone's acknowledgement, stop attacking other groups for expanding globally and you'll see a change.

Sorry for the long essay. I think the reason for this long essay is the clarification of my points and to go in detail so that even the dumbest person with poorest reading comprehension can understand it easily.

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Wow... you wrote a whole essay but it said nothing but cherry picked instances trying to rewrite facts. Maybe you just lack comprehension skills?

Even a few days back we have viral tweets talking about how BTS' English songs have taken them away from their kpop roots unlike the recent English song of another group.

You brinwashed yourself into forgetting the debate which started from "beggarmys licking the west's feet for western validation" and "BTS are not Korean anymore (how kpop=Korean? We would never know)" to "our faves are looking for western appreciation not validation".

So I am sorry, that ARMYs were less than thrilled that those same fandoms who dragged BTS to filth over even daring to expand in the west and apparently not proud of being Korean... have faves who are now trying to walk the same path.

Why are the fandoms not calling their faves hungry for western validation now? And why do they expect ARMYs to not bring it up just for shits and giggles any chance the get?

BTS paved the way? Fact.

ARMYs love making a mickey out of kpop fandoms, who once united against the oppressive western validation and said they are proud of their faves for staying in Asia? Facts.

Both can and do co-exist. I mean just look at the OP here, crying about the same things they used to attack BTS and ARMYs with. Down to the paving the way argument started by kpop stans of 2nd gen.

Enjoy the medicine, you and OP both!

Quote from Ves

THE IRONY

KPOP Companies:

KPOP Idols deserve to be considered for exception, look at all BTS has done! They have done X, Y and Z!

Public:

Why is BTS asking for this?!!!! Drag them!

Government:

Since you asked, we'll give an exception based of X, Y, Z, so congrats BTS!

KPOP Companies:

Wait, -- -- That's not what we meant!! That's too hard for anyone not BTS to achieve! That's unfair! WE'LL SUE YOU!

So the government is not using the Order of Cultural Merit anymore due to the backlash and proposed other non-Korean awards since the Order of Cultural Merit is "unfair". And of course now we hear responses how can they base it on non Korean awards and also how soooo many did it before BTS and again start dragging BTS through the mud...

Really? REALLY?

BTS can't catch a fucking break.

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BTS is seriously the punching bag and have been since they debuted.

Imagine now questioning their achievements and linking them with illegal deserters... just for asking for clarification so they could plan accordingly.

Like how dare you show interest in your own future after years of bring used by kpop companies, dangled like a bait by sk govt and chewed out by the general public with jealous kpop fans to boot.

This is all a joke!

Quote from kazuyakamenashi

Yet again instant defense and fail to understand. The majority of people who are divided over this law is in regards to the specifics and a member of government talked about what should the requirements be. All the shit you just said trendsetter? Sprrad of culture and prestige? All have been done before from rain to dbsk/tvxq to jyp yg and sm creating kpop which would never have existed without that this includes BTS. Psy did all of that BigBang did all of that including g dragon who's often the trendsetter for almost anything fashion and art for the last 20yrs but i digress. What people want to know is exemption law for you making a trillion dollars? Is it for being awarded every award on earth or something else? Because national prestige and culture is far too vauge many have done that.

The companies housing the artists you named? They themselves listed BTS' achievements and used them as a bargaining tool. Wonder why they waited for BTS and didn't use their own artists and why the sk govt didn't give them the order of cultural merit.

Simple, because they are not like BTS in any way. The sk govt, many Korean people and even their own companies know it. Don't you think you are seriously downplaying BTS? And for what?

No fan, BTS or their company asked for the law to be made for entertainers. Go crazy on those who did. We just believe that BTS is an exception and should be treated as such.

The members asking for clarification after years of facing the questions, unprovoked is not corrupt. But you and like minded people are comparing BTS with illegal deserters... when BTS are none of those things.

Quote from SandyBee3

They should have just granted BTS an exemption for meeting the requirements for cultural merit as a special exemption just for them as a special reward or something.

But they came up with the idea to pass a bill that would allow more entertainers the possibility to get an exemption, so of course once they try to set the requirements it shouldn’t be impossible to reach, so I can understand why these companies intervened. So it’s their fault for coming up with that possibility in the first place. And now they got the problem to find the proper requirements cause I also think that at least cultural achievements should be involved too.

That said, I hope they don’t just include American achievements cause this would just lead to an even heavier pandering towards the US ( it’s already happening)cause now they might see a chance to not get their BG to enlist.

Tbh I don’t think such a bill should exist in the first place for entertainers.

The thing is, it was a union of these big and small entertainment companies, including the big3, who used BTS and their achievements as a poster child to push for military exemption for years. BigHit wasn't invoved.

They started the debate and then protested when they were granted exactly what they asked for. What were they exepcting then? BTS with it's multifaceted, global and local achievements is an outlier and anomaly. They should have used their own idols if they wanted a more easier and inclusive criteria.

BTS doesn't only have American achievements like the comments are painting... any criteria made with them in mind would seem impossible for others. And they deserve the exemption, especially after the circus they exeperienced for the past four years... law or no law.

Quote from SandyBee3

This sounds like you only get an exemption when you got American validation?

They first went for Korean validaion. The initial meetings proposed order of cultural merit (BTS are the youngest recipients there). But more than 20 entertainment companies, who started the whole mess, officially objected that it was too difficult and felt "just for BTS".

Later they proposed Grammy, BBMAs and AMAs, it is not final yet. But I would much rather they take into account BTS' musical, economic and cultural achievements that made them receive order of cultural merit. No need to dumb their global influence down for others.

Quote from 0ppar

Interesting that they're blaming Yoon Seok Yeol considering he doesn't take over until May 10th. If an investigation is being started, it's under Moon's authority.

Awww babyyy, were you expecting a negative BTS and Hybe article with insulting comments to boot??

I bet you didn't even read it before copy pasting, or if you did you wanted to share your disappointment over comments not dragging them.

I am curious, are you a BTS anti or Hybe?

BTS has seven distinct artists and their rich discography spans a decade (starting from pre-debut).

It has a song for different people, moods, genres, sensibilities, ideas, personalities, inspirations, topics, experiences etc etc.

No wonder, even during inactivity their albums sell like hot cakes... old and new alike.

Quote from torchik37

I honestly find it funny when fans don't want them to go. The army is literally their ONE vacation from being worldwide mega superstars where they can just live a normal life, not have the media following them, and make friends with real people.

To take that away from them so they can continue slaving away for HYBE is not thinking of their well-being...

Vacation? Normal life? Real people? Wow!

The stories people, especially kpop idols, have told about the happenings in military... and you saying this.

Quote from Kreatin

Just grant anyone that is awarded the order of cultural merit exemption by default. Done.

They tried to do it at first... but multiple entertainment companies started crying that it was too unfair.

Keep in mind, these were the same companies who used BTS name and image for years for media play to get exemptions for their own acts too in future.

No BigHit nor BTS were present in any of those meetings but their names and achievememts were still used, resulting in years of verbal and internet abuse for BTS.

When Korean govt took notice and started to seriously consider BTS for exemption and making Order of Cultural Merit as the criteria this was the response:

IMG_20220411_201811.jpg

Because obviously who else could get it and that too under the age of 30. The new supposed criteria is the lenient one, but people are still crying.

Quote from nochutae

because sport players have a majority male fanbase

If this isn't the truth!

Quote from byakuyav

I mean, that's what I said in my first message you quoted anyway. I think if they get an exemption, they will get a huge reaction and at the slightest scandal they will be get sarcastic remarks like 'Is this why you were exempted from military service?' This is not difficult to guess. They gave an answer, albeit politically, and yes, Suga preached about the military in his song, and now circled back to him. Period.

Just like certain knetz, you are attaching negative connotation to Suga simply getting fed up of the years of bullying BTS experienced at the hands of media, knetz, politicians and other kpop companies. "the time" and "when called" are all relative not absolute.

They are more knowledgable about their life and country. These fully grown men will make the decision that is the best for them. Like I said, they know it more than you and I.

You think BTS were preaching and going back on their word, I don't think so. You can't change my mind, neither I yours... so, peace and bye!

Quote from byakuyav

Why are you acting like we're talking about something different? Did Jin say he will enlisting when he was called? Yes. Did Suga write lyrics about enlisting in the army when the time comes? Yes. I say netizens will always use these words against them, which they already do. I think it would have been much better if they had enlisted when the pandemic started. Now that the pandemic is almost over, other artists will start their concert tour, but Jin and Suga's deadlines are coming.

I am saying BTS members have always given nuanced, diplomatic answers when point blank asked about enlistment. Were the knetz expecting them to say "no, we will not enlist" or "yes, we will always enlist"? They never gave black and white answers, always open ended.

In the survey conducted by Dispatch more than 70 percent are in favor of granting them enlistment. If 'some' people are delibrately twisting their lyrics and answers and calling it preaching, then no one can do anything.

It's between Korean gov, BTS members, Hybe and Korean people. Whatever decision is taken, at the end, is of importance... not the emotions of certain knetz, yours or mine.

Quote from byakuyav

I'm not talking about Jin. I'm talking about Suga's lyrics, as netizens often use.

"Ooh, ooh, regarding military, we’ll enlist on our own when it’s time. Those bastards who used our names and tried to ride our coattails, to all shut up"

Also, Jin has said several times before that that he will fulfill his duty when the time comes when he is called. Either way, these words came out of their own mouths.

The issue is Jin's enlistment as he is the first and he has officially said in interview that he would go when he is called.

You really using the lyrics from Suga's mixtape addressing how different companies are using BTS' names for their own benefit? Also, different translations:

Woo woo, we'll be sure to go to the military when it's time, so

All the bastards who tried to sell our name to freeload off us, shut up

And 'time' here can be any time, maybe even the time when they are called, like Jin said.

Quote from byakuyav

Imagine accepting an exemption after all those 'We're all going to enlist in the military when the time comes' preaching. The backlash is going to be HUGE.

Jin actually said "... will enlist when called upon" and not "will enlist when time comes". Also, he didn't preach to anyone, only answered the question he was asked.

Stop twisting his words, it isn't amusing.

Quote from 0ppar

Unlike SHM, when has BTS ever represented South Korea on the world stage?

UN? South Korean president took them there as repsentatives. And they repesent South Korea, it's culture and language with their music and where ever they go.

Like I said... soft power.

Casual Listener: Tolerates and listens (maybe even passively) to the music of a specific artist or group but know nothing else about them. May not even know the individual members of groups.

Casual Fan: Actively seek out and enjoy the music of specific artist. Know the different members and recognize them.

Casual Stan: Just like casual fan but also add knowing the history of artist/members, group dynamics and the stories behind their music. Would attend concerts if they have time and money.

Stan: Absolutely in love with specific artist/group of artists, as people and their music. Know all the insipirations and anecdotes about the music, the team and what they stand for.

It's almost a long term hobby... would plan a part of their finances and vacations around concerts and albums.

Quote from 0ppar

Son Heung Min plays for the national team in AFC and world cup matches.

He is currently playing in Tottenham Hotspur apart from helping Korea win the Asian games... so he represented Korea and is now playing, represting and getting insane amount of money for himself. Just like BTS.

Not to mention BTS' influence is much greater than his own... in Korea and around the world, pop or social. Thousands of international fans increase Korea's tourism just to attend their concerts or to spend vacations there.

Quote from 0ppar

Athletes and classical musicians who win awards/medals in international competitions are exempt. They're competing under the South Korean flag. BTS is representing themselves and HYBE.

What about Son Heung min? He is competing under South Korean flag?

BTS represents South Korea (even the Asian race), it's culture, language and people. They represented Korea internationally in UN multiple times.

You may think it's insignificant, but in the modern world this is soft power. The survey in the OP conducted by Dispatch clearly shows the sentiments of common Korean people.

Can we even imagine the stress and frustration the boys went through these past weeks. And isn't it magical that they overcame every hurdle, almost magically... just like how they carved their successful career.

Not only they performed, all seven performed... as one, with only one rehearsal. And their single performance was proclaimed as the best of the event, and one of the best of all time.

BTS always show what hardwork and good energy can achieve... absolutely love them and their art.

Are different people actually trying to start beef with BTS, maybe would even stoop low enough to make a diss track on them?

Based on what... BTS' race and success mixed in with their own blind hatred and ignorance? Anything for attention I guess.

Man, after heaps of praises from multiple sides for BTS' absolutely beautiful and perfect performance... it's exhausting watching grown ass people (ironically, artists) shitting on them without any reason.