they occupy territory that is heavily defended. They left gaza in 2005 so palestinians can have their own state. now they are forced to invade since gaza keeps attacking israel. whoever rules gaza is fully responsible for whatever happens.
the war and the killing and dying can be over as soon hamas release the hostages and lay down its arms and promise to not attack israel anymore.
lol, dont be ridiculous. if they wanted, they would turn gaza in a graveyard within a day. So far Israel drops a few hundred rounds per day. Thats not even that much more than the 11000 rockets hamas fired into israel since the 7th october. the 500 rockets hamas misfired into gaza are probably responsible for 5% of the dead palestinians.
As an example what a real genozide is. In ruanda they murdered a milion within a month and they only used machetes. If military wants to anihilate something they use different numbers. The german army fired 2 milion rounds in the opening barrage on verdun. in the whole battle 50 milion rounds where fired.
Display MoreI don't know why you quoted my post but, we all know that Hamas didn't just use Gazans to get what they want. Israel has been committing a genocide for 75 years. Palestinians have been in an open prison for 75 years. Hamas are trying to do to Israel what Israel has been doing to Palestinians for 75 years.
And you are wrong. Israel wants all Palestinian land, Hamas is an excuse. If Hamas stops fighting, Israel will silently kill all Palestinians just so they can have all that land without any Arab living on it.
History talks about the promised land but never about it's location.
The Nazis found Jews in different parts of Europe and started killing them. They were not in the current Israel. Palestine was never their home, Jews aren't Arab, Palestine is in Arabia. Palestinians felt sorry for jews who were being put in gas chambers and welcomed them into their homes only for the Jews to grow stronger, ally, and connive with Britain and America and they started the genocide of Palestinians which is still ongoing today.
That is what I know and it's the truth.
75 years ago the British left the land. The jews declared independence in the part they lived. You can google it everywhere. It was the arab countries surounding the jews who declared the war 1948. But they lost.
Anyway. It was 75 years ago that 700.000 palestinians got displaced. What do you think. how many of themy are still alive?
In the last few years 20 milion arabs got displaced and milions murderd by other muslims like syrians, turks and jemenits. Nobody cares. Nobody cares that 40 milion kurds also dont get their free state. Why? because people dont care about palestinians or arabs. This movement is run by people who hate jews.
Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs are both native to the land. Nobody will go away.They are forced to live together. 2milion arabs live in Israel with full citizenship. Israel have left Gaza in 2005 so the Palestinians can have their own state. But many Palestinians refuse to accept the jews and keep shoting rockets into israel. Those who support hamas and are against any peace deal needs to be eliminated so peace can be aranged.
I don’t know when it went from calling out the injustice Palestinians are facing to actively supporting the Hamas.
I was also shocked to hear how many universities allow or even encourage this nonsense. Imagine paying thousands for your tuition to be thought absolute nothing. No wonder the rest of the world continues to not take Americans serious.
I mean here in Germany majorityof young people are in support of Palestine too, but they also condemn the Hamas and also see things more nuanced. Maybe it’s because we got better history lessons, I feel like Europe does a way better job in that aspect anyway.
This pro-palestine slogan "From the river to the sea, Hitler would agree" is now illegal in germany like all kind of support for holocaust .
Display MoreIsrael : /isolates Gaza inside a walled fence, controls thei water and electricity supply, controls the number of calories allowed inside Gaza for consumption based on gender and age, controls their borders, restricts their travels, bombed their only airport, restricts and controls what kind of goods are allowed inside Gaza, bans cement and construction materials, takes away their right of self determination and does not recognise Palestine as a sovereign country, carries out illegal expansions and settlements in the west bank, employs an apartheid regime where Palestinians movement is restricted inside the west bank to the point of segregated roads and neighborhoods where Palestinians aren't allowed entry, employs excessive intrusive checkpoints that makes it a struggle to even make it on time for school and work.
Allkpop user Kazu something something : how come Palestinians didn't turn their besieged, occupied land into a first world nation? How come the Palestinian authority in the west bank didn't make good use of Gaza's resources even though Palestinians aren't allowed to travel from the west bank to Gaza unless they pledge to never return????
I'm losing my mind at the fucking audacity to know absolutely nothing but still feel the entitlement to say too much
Israel build a walled fence on their border. egypt did the same. every country controlls their border. its gaza who needs to work on better relations with their neighbors if they want changes in this regard. Threaten them with extinction is not the way to go.
Israel does not controll Gaza water supply. gaza gets 80% of their water from their own gazan coastal aquilifer. 10% from their own salination plant and 10% they buy from israeli water company. the water supply was allready on the verge of collapse befor the war since gazan local authority is to busy building rockets and tunnels instead of take care of that. so if the gazan civilians lack water its because they are not under israel but hamas authority.
If you expect israel supply gaza with utilities after they started a war you are insane.
Of course they controll who travel into their country. They do so to secure the safety of their people. no country recognise palestine since they dont behave like one.
They let like 67.000 trucks into gaza in 2022. no other region receive as much aid as gaza. you can work in a civilised way to improve that or you fight and it gets less.
If you think most palestines and israelis want war you stupid.
On palestine side its a bunch of young fanatic islamists and on israel side its a bunch of extremist settlers who cause the trouble. both parties are a minority on their side.
One more important fact people do not know, but that they should know: according to UN statistics of global conflict, the average civilian to combatant killed ratio is a rather appalling nine civilians killed for every one combatant killed.
That’s why civilian body counts in and of themselves are never indicative of a war crime. Each individual strike has to be analyzed, and unfortunately civilians always suffer disproportionately in wars.
In fact, while Israel is routinely criticized for any of its strikes that kill civilians, you may be surprised to know that Israel’s civilian to combatant ratio is routinely much lower than the nine to one average.
In the very last operation carried out by the IDF prior to October 7 (in Jenin), 0.6 civilians were killed for every one combatant killed.
In that conflict, not only were the IDF’s ratio numbers nowhere near the nine to one international average, but the IDF actually managed to kill more combatants than civilians - something that is extremely rare.
In truth, Israel is targeted by accusations of war crimes almost immediately by the media, by politicians, and by the UN General Assembly despite the fact that those accusations are near 100% of the time based neither in fact nor in law.
Since a proportionality balancing test must be used to determine whether a single specific Israeli strike falls within the confines of international law, someone providing an analysis must have all of the facts Israel considered before carrying out that strike as to the anticipated impact on civilians and the anticipated military advantage. Obviously, anyone who is making a snap judgment critical of Israel could not possibly have that information.
Understand then, that when you see talking heads accusing Israel of “war crimes” immediately after and/or during Israeli strikes, that is not an actual legal analysis under international law of what constitutes a war crime.
Much more likely, what you are witnessing is part of Hamas’ ongoing psychological and propaganda warfare campaign of demonizing and delegitimizing the State of Israel in the eyes of public opinion.
Under International Humanitarian Law, proportionality requires that any degree of damage (up to and including death) to civlians not be “excessive” in relation to the “military advantage anticipated from a strike against a military target.”
We are going to break that down, so everyone understands what exactly that means.
However, first, you should be aware that it is a misnomer that anytime palestinian civilians die after an Israeli strike, it is automatically evidence of an Israeli war crime. This is completely false - the law does not work that way.
Simply, and unfortunately, the international rules of law recognize that civilians are often killed during war; and, most of the time, those deaths are actually not indicative of a war crime.
Instead, the legal test for “proportionality” requires that each individual strike be looked at with a particular balancing analysis.
First, here is a hard and fast rule: the strike must be intended to target a military objective; it is, therefore, an unlawful war crime to strike with the intent of targeting civilians without any military objective whatsoever.
Now, let’s get a little technical while still keeping it simple.
Under the First Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions of 1977 at both Article 51(5)(b) and Article 52(2), we know that when Hamas uses its own population (or Israeli hostage) as human shields - either by using them to shield themselves or to shield their weapons depots - Hamas has, under international law, turned civilians targets into military targets.
That means that when Hamas places weapons caches in and under schools, hospitals, mosques, etc., Hamas has made each of those places legitimate military targets.
So, it has been well-known for many years that Hamas purposefully placed its headquarters underground beneath the al-Shifa Hospital. In doing so, international law holds that the hospital is no longer just a civilian target, it is a legitimate military target.
That does not necessarily give the IDF carte blanche to attack hospitals, schools, mosques, etc.; however, it does mean that an IDF attack on a civilian target that has been made into a military target by Hamas’ use of human shields is not per se illegal under international law.
Instead, such a strike (as is the case with any strike conducted by a military like the IDF), must be analyzed through a balancing test.
One part of this balancing test performed by Israel before each strike is to determine whether the human shields in question are being used voluntarily or involuntarily.
If the human shields are being used voluntarily - meaning the human shields are there protecting Hamas and its weapons of their own volition - then the target remains a completely legitimate military target.
If the human shields are being used involuntarily - meaning Hamas is forcing people to act as human shields to protect themselves and/or their weapons - then the IDF must go back to the balancing test to determine whether the anticipated military advantage of a successful strike would outweigh the reasonably anticipated loss of civilian life.
Importantly, the IDF rules state that if it cannot determine whether a human shield is being used voluntarily or involuntarily, it must presume the civilian is being used against his or her own will and treat the civilians as an involuntary participant.
Assuming that there is a military target & that there may be human shields that are there involuntarily, the next step in the proportionality analysis for each individual strike (remember, proportionality is determined on a strike-by-strike basis, and not as the accumulation of strikes over time) is to try to determine the likely amount of damage to civilian persons and/or property as a result of the strike.
In other words, under international law, Israel must be able to give a sort of “value” to the anticipated impact on civilians (including potential civilian deaths). Simply, a smaller number of anticipated civilian casualties may make the strike proportionate if there is a significant military advantage to be gained by conducting the strike.
However, if Israel determines that the anticipated impact of a strike may cause many civilian casualties, it must make the difficult determination of whether the anticipated military advantage is so significant that it warrants carrying out the strike anyway.
So, if Hamas has a weapons depot underneath a house with two civilians inside, and that house has been used to fire 500 rockets at Israeli civilians, and it is reasonably expected that there are hundreds more rockets under that house, Israel can almost certainly carry out the strike within the confines of international law.
If that same house, however, had 10 families living inside, including many children, it could - and likely would - tip the scales of the proportionality balancing test toward Israel not being permitted to carry out the strike, even though the house has been used to attack Israeli civilians and can be expected to continue to be used to carry out attacks against Israeli civilians.
Now, that balancing test can always change. If that same house is being used to fire long-range, precision-guided missiles at Israel’s major population centers in places like Tel Aviv (effectively putting millions of Israeli civilians in danger), the balancing test may tip back in favor of Israel being legally permitted to carry out the strike.
This all suggests the third and final step in the proportionality balancing test: the IDF must determine and place a “value” on the anticipated military advantage that would be gained if it were to carry out a particular strike.
An attack on Hamas leadership and/or its weapons manufacturers would be considered a high value target. An attack on a single Hamas member who has no special skill, would be a much lower value military target.
Similarly, an attack on a small cache of mortars would have less military value that an attack on a large cache of advanced rockets that can reach large Israeli civilian population centers.
Once the IDF determines the anticipated “value” of the likely effect on civilian persons and property and the anticipated “value” of the likely military advantage to be gained if the strike is carried out, the balancing test can be performed, and a certain amount of judgment must go into the determination of whether that strike would or would not be “proportionate.”
Importantly, this decision is so vital that the IDF does not simply permit a single solder on the ground with his or her hand on the proverbial (or actual) “trigger” to make that determination.
In fact, the decision of whether a strike is proportionate is not even left up to IDF officers. It’s not even left up to IDF Generals.
Instead, before any IDF strike can take place, IDF Guidelines provide that the proportionality balancing test must be presented to and analyzed by IDF military lawyers who then determine whether the strike is legally permissible as “proportionate” under international law and the rules of war.
And these IDF military lawyers are not mere patsies or people who simply “rubber stamp” what the IDF requests.
In fact, the IDF’s military lawyers work entirely independently of the IDF. They are outside of the chain of command and do not answer to anyone in the IDF, including a General (for example).
Plus, every IDF military lawyer knows he or she may very well be held to account if he or she makes a wrong decision based on the evidence available at the time.
Furthermore, sometimes the decisions to be made while balancing the likely military advantage against the likely civilian casualties can be so difficult that the legality of the strike is first brought to the Israeli Supreme Court for instant review.
Another important concept: the comparison of civilian body counts of Israeli versus Palestinians (to the extent those numbers can be trusted since they come directly from Hamas-only) is not relevant to a proportionality analysis. Each strike must be viewed individually to determine proportionality. It is not a test of the cumulative nature of the strikes.
Also, by simply comparing body counts, it does not factor in how many people killed were actually Hamas Terrorists, how many were Hamas collaborators there voluntarily, and it does not consider what military advantage was gained by Israel carrying out any individual strike.
As Israel is now in the process of seeking to secure the military advantage of preventing Hamas from having the capacity to carry out repeated attacks of the kind and nature seen on October 7th, Israel is permitted to act proportionately insofar as necessary to achieve that military objective (the elimination of Hamas and/or its ability to make war).
“Self-Defense” Under International Law
Self-defense is the most basic legal right afforded to all sovereign nations.
Under both customary international law & Article 51 of the UN Charter, all countries acknowledge one another’s “inherent right” to self-defense against armed attack.
You may hear some claim Israel’s self-defense is limited to what he or she claims is “proportionate” to the Hamas Massacre of October 7-only. That is incorrect.
Israel’s right to self-defense under international law continues until it has eradicated the ongoing threat of further attacks by Hamas
Why? Well, the OctobreMassacre was only the latest & most deadly Terrorrist Attack by Hamas against Israel.
Hamas’ Goals Stated in its Charter
For anyone paying attention, Hamas does not hide its intentions. Its raison d’être is expressly stated in its 1988 Charter, which includes the following (just a few examples):
(1) Hamas is in a worldwide religious “struggle against the Jew”;
(2) Hamas intends to “raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine” (“from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea”) where it plans an Islamic Caliphate; and
(3) Hamas vows no Peace with Israel, claiming “Palestine is an Islamic land.”
Extent of Israel’s Legal Right to Self-Defense
Israel’s legal right to self-defense permits it to do everything “necessary” to ensure Hamas can never attack Israeli civilians again.
At a minimum, this is because of: (1) the genocidal brutality of Oct 7; (2) Hamas’ history of genocidal warfare against Israel & Jews; and (3) Hamas’ express commitment to repeat massacres like Oct 7 “over and over.”
Thus, Israel’s right to “self-defense” extends beyond just stopping Hamas’ immediate attacks (it still fires rockets daily at Israel), it permits Israel to completely eradicate Hamas’ military capability.
One way to think of how/why it is “necessary” for Israel to destroy Hamas’ military capability in self-defense is to understand countries not only have the right to eliminate threats to their civilian population, but they also have the right to restore a sense of security.
On October 7, Hamas shattered Israel’s sense of security since Hamas showed it had the capability to defeat Israel’s defensive measures.
Israel had invested heavily in defensive-only military capabilities such as building the Iron Dome system that intercepts the majority of rockets fired from Gaza & by constructing bomb shelters across the country.
However, on October 7, Hamas got around Israel’s defenses & carried out a genocidal massacre.
As a result, Israel is legally justified under international law to take necessary action in self-defense by completely destroying Hamas’ ability to make war or commit atrocities again by doing things such as: (1) capturing or killing Hamas’ command & control; (2) destroying Hamas’ combat capabilities by taking out operatives, launch sites, & military equipment; and (3) taking steps to prevent Hamas from reconstituting & rearming.
One additional thing to keep in mind with regard to Israel’s legal right to self-defense is the possibility that Israel could extend this right to Iran given its role as the main sponsor of Hamas in both weapons and terror training.
Whether Israel thinks it is a good idea to strike Iran directly remains to be seen; however, it is clear that Israel would be legally justified in doing so in order to stop Iran from funding attacks against its civilians.
Interesting. They were elected to run Gaza and are the government and control the health ministry and all other government bodies yet claims no responsibility for their people. Built all those tunnels but didn't allow the citizens to hide in them or make them bomb shelters.
Somebody tell this is propaganda
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no. its not. this is indeed hamas leadership live on tv.
and there you can see all those people just pretend and dont give a shit about palestine children.
where was the outcry when hamas took all the money ment for the children and build rockets from it.
nobody cared when assad killed 6000 arab children with sarin gas.
Shhh don't speak facts, they are scared of that stuff and will retreat into their echo chambers by blocking everyone on the fourm that doesn't agree with them so they won't see your messages. These people can't debate you because they'd rather silence any disagreement instead of talking it out and finding the truth. Because in reality both sides have some wrong in them, but silencing one side like some people do solves nothing
They barely argue since they know next to nothing about the conflict. They dont even know how to debate so they rely on whining and trash talk. The good thing with stupid people is, they wont get in positions of power. so except some extremists, no country will support palestine.
Jewish people were killed by White people during world war 2
Hamas this Hamas that, Hamas is a group that was created in 1987 and before that Israel was killing and exiling Palestine from their homes, a Palestine baby was bruned the over during the 50’s was it Hamas they were trying to eradicate maybe that baby could’ve been a potential Hamas member so that’s why the killed him, Israel has been committing genocide since they set foot in Palestine they stole Palestine culture and land, and now they’re doing all those saying they eradicating innocent people is way to eradicate Hamas because yes Hamsa is in schools, Hamas is in hospitals, Hamada is in the UN and Hamsa might even be in your phone and in your cup of coffee that you drink Hamas is everywhere even in this forum
Yes the killing keeps going on since 1920 when the arab nationalism grew up and started the first progroms and massakre and the jews responded. the jews arent innocent but if you keep the circle of violence you wont solve anything.
jews have allways been there. and the jews who migrated there. no matter if they fleed from algeria or europe, they also have their ancestors coming from that area. they are called jews because they are from judea. arabs are from arabia. even your own prophets and the quran say the land belongs to the jews. stop that nonsense from stealing. the jewish agency bough that land from muslim landowners. blame the muslim landowners that they gave a shit about their muslim pesant brothers. later they took more land in a war that was started by arab countries. blame them for fighting like shit.
Israel took gaza from egypt. why did egypt kept palestinians under martial law instead of give them an independent country? The westbank took israel from jordan. israel dont need a palestine state nor are they responsible to create one. its up to palestinians. and if they cant create a country by force they have to find a way to deal with their neighbors and make concessions. they wont get their country served on a silvertablet, its not like its only israel. It was also the palestinians who created civil wars in jordan, libanon or wherever they are.
Killing children in war is wrong. Fuck your justification.
there is no justification. killing children and war is wrong. both started by hamas.
The gaza civilians have been suffering from the Israel cuz they r terrorists for decades now, but ofc no one would talk about that. Since when we have people supporting genocide in this forum, yikessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Hamas exists cuz of Israel, how about u blame israel, why u blaming victims ? ''Hamas started the war'' what are u ? 12 ? go educate urself, its not a war, it was never a war, Israel started this genocide for decades now. Stop spreading ur false ass infos and go educate urself. Disgusting behavior
Hamas exist cuz palestinians hate israel. Hamas took over from fatah because fatah is making peace with israel and many palestinians dont like that.
Israel still left gaza in 2005.
palestinians are the only population that is claiming to get genocided while the population is blooming like no other. thanks for make me laugh.
you allways blame israel while most of the problems are caused by themself. for example their water supply. gaza is in charge of their water supply. 80% comes from gaza coastal aquifiler, 10% from their desalination plant. and 10% they buy from israeli water company. but they let it rot for decades while double their population and now blame israel for water shortage. you guys are clowns.
douzends of UNRWA teacher made posts on sozial media. celebrating the massacre.
their material in schools, that they teach the kids that jews are subhumans who needs to get killed is also no secret.
there are douzends of recorded interviews with captured hamas fighter who confirm the israeli accusations.
video recordings of hamas fighter shoting from hospitals. weapon storages and factories in schools and kindergarten.
This year UN made 1 resolution aganst Syria. 1 against russia and 15 against Israel. Their structure and organisation is transparent. their bias is obvious.
Palestinian civilians get more support and aid than every other refugee region in the world.
it doesnt matter what UN say. It doesnt matter if its 1, 2 or 50 sided. Hamas started a war and now they get the consequences. They killed 1400 israelis. and now you expect israel to supply them with utilities? are you insane? this is not how war works.
very convenient excuse by israelis to justify murdering more than 10k civillians
Hamas started the war. People die in war. specially if hamas use them as their body armor.
There is no army in the world that put as much effort in preventing loss of civilian lives as the IDF.
The killing will stop the moment Hamas surrenders.
Majority of Israelis own guns , i guess all of them are terrorists too
Israel use missiles to protect their people.
hamas use people to protect their missiles.
I was very grossed out by the footage of Hamas raping and kidnapping those women in the festival. But even I see Hamas as a consequential danger of Israel's constant brutality OP you keep on making these posts after posts with no empathy for the palestinian children being bombed and killed please OP it's sick. Like support who you want but please show some humanity to the innocents suffering too
from the hundreds of people in the streets cheering, spiting on those mutliated naked bodies. not a single person saying its wrong. Of course not all 2 milion people had been in these videos.
If they keep going. they may be able to convince the israelis that a 2 state solution is not possible. but it may not end the way the palestinians expect it to end.
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after wearing civilian cloth to combat an IDF now they wore Red-cross/medic so IDF won't shoot them.
look at all these terrorist in civilian clothing so when they died they become civilian casualties.
genius
there was also many videos of captured hamas fighters.
If UN gives training for medics. half are civilians, other half are hamas. the hamas combat medics have their own cars. but they look like the civil ambulances. they are also used to drive hamas leader around.
like in this scene the medics are also supposed to get weapons and other important equipment from the dead hamas fighters to give it to the other hamas fighter.
Notice how many of these so called "innocent civilians" are actively standing around the combat zone NOT fleeing or looking for cover and are CHEERING!. This plus Many many other things especially over the 80+ years makes you wonder can there really ever be peace? Or is erasing them from human dna and every inch of the planet the only way
when they paraded the naked mutilated bodies of the women, they captured, through the streets of gaza. hundreds of people cheered, spit on them and other stuff. there was not a single person saying that this is wrong.
Even the nazis where ashamed of their crimes. the SS-batalions who shot the people in the head and burried them had to get heavily drunk in the evening.
