Korean dramas and their fixation to making the leads meet as children..insane.
Once again SooAh showed zero maturity and concern for her friend but JK ran after her when she acted like a child. I was so angry. I mean the rest of the class were bad too but she was supposed to be her friend.
I admire her for being brave and going back but for some reason it still felt weird.
She looks gorgeous as always but the song is not for me.
It feels a little flat and the drop doesn't fit the rest of the song or her soft way of singing that much.
Blop for me.
This list includes some of their best in my opinion and I feel is their more mature sound and really well produced songs.
1. 134340
2. Louder than Bombs
3. Disease
4. Outro: Tear
5. Blue And Grey
6. WABE
7. Rain
8. Singularity
9. Fly to My Room
10. Lie
11. Black Swan (orchestra version)
12. Pied Piper
13. House of Cards
14. The Truth Untold
15. Trivia Love
Not for me, I didn't like it.
it wasn't only the price but there was only one version of the album and the photocards of each member were included which pretty much kills the incentive to bulk buy for some fans
Definitely. But I still think the price was the biggest deterrent for a lot of people. Not to mention the confusion they did nothing to clear.
Hmm, I disagree with that 3M prediction. “Almost no ARMY” predicted less? I remember the threads made last year about how much it would sell once the price was revealed and there didn’t seem to be any news of a standard edition. A lot of us, including me, expected it to sell around 1M at best. Some of us even lowered our expectations to 800-900k.
When it sold 2.6M, we were surprised, especially after the C-ARMY and CCP fiasco who could’ve added another million to those numbers.
I think I didn't express myself correctly. I meant that before the preorders and the price were revealed, people thought it would sell way more than it did. Some people even predicted or dreamed of 7 mil. I don't think a lot of fans thought there was a chance it would sell less than 3 mil.
But after we saw the price, most people's expectations were low.
Will buy! Already have the deluxe and glad we have a cheaper option! Also with those grammy nominated stamps? I'm in.
Just pointing out that BTS planned their schedule one year in advance so it is most likely that this promotional rollout is of course, not a surprise release but also strategically planned. Deluxe version sold way more than the market's expectation, a business article talked about it.
I am not that sure about that because the pandemic changed their plans. I think not even all the dates were revealed before the cancellation so it is not certain we would have even BE the way it is now.
I don't think BH actually expected the album to sell only 36k the second month after release and during the Christmas season but again this is my opinion. Like it is my opinion that almost no Army thought that this album would sell less than 3 mil before the pre orders and the price were revealed. But it did happen.
But even if you are right, if this release now is what they actually planned and thought it was a good idea, then it is even sadder.
No. I have been against what BH tried to do with album from the very beginning and them releasing this now and in this way won't change that. If anything it is still bad in my opinion.
I don't see it as a gift of appreciation, I see it as a way for higher sales because it is obvious the Deluxe Version didn't sell as high as they expected.
Ngl, the description and the word appreciation feels like a slap on the face of all those people who asked and asked for clarification for months and never got any.
And it's the biggest irony that those who complained were told that buying an album is not a necessity and it's a luxury, only for this album to be called Essential. But again that might only be me.
With all that mess, it's a blessing the music was absolutely amazing.
I was never on twitter in the first place. Big brain energy
Queen! 
This is so true lol, I became active in the kpop community in the beginning of 2020 after being a BTS fan for 2 years and all I saw was people being toxic towards BTS and calling everything they achieved irrelevant lmao. I don't really care about other groups much and didn't get into the cycle of dragging but it's a really easy cycle to fall into with how people take ARMYs opinions here.
Once people start blaming me for shit other people do with y'alls I actually want to do it more
Alas, everything is a matter of perspective when it comes to fanwars as you wisely said
I want to scream when some replies to me with 'y'all', 'your fandom' or 'you people'. I left twitter because I wanted to be seen as an individual with my own opinions. And it is true that Armys' opinion are not often taken seriously because of bias but others' are objective and true.
off topic but pepe! I want to try one too! 
Yes. The bigger the fandom gets it becomes messy & complicated. We might see everything differently and we are different individuals. But in the end no one wants to accept each other that's the problem. I think the we should just agree that 1st gens have paved the way for 2nd gen. 2nd gens have paved the way for 3rd gen. And 3rd gen have paved the way for 4th gen instead of talking about who has paved the way for asia or west. I appreciate BTS's influence. Yes they have made the biggest influence. But their impact only applies to following generations. But what influenced them to reach this height is probably the contribution of 2nd gens.
I agree. It is the way of life after all.
To me, BTS paved the way in the West and worldwide unlike no other group because, as you said about the 2nd gen and aesthetics and sound, they were the ones who had impact enough to change and shape the industry completely. Kpop is not what it used to be because of that impact.
It remains to be seen if the 4th gen will take kpop a step further.
Since I have been kpop fan for 13 years I have seen lots of groups are dragged to the bottom so many times. Yes during the time BTS has been dragged a lot by mostly V.I.Ps and EXO-Ls. Funny to say it but at that time I have hated V.I.Ps so much. I have reacted to them just like how I am reacting to ARMYs right now. I have chosen BTS and ARMYs and followed them. But since BTS has became popular ARMYs has started to behave how V.I.P has behaved back then. They have also dragged the other 4th gen groups I stan. So I don't help it but this circle of bashing & dragging will never end. I might chose the minority or losing side in each time.
The reason 2nd gen groups are credited mostly is maybe because 2nd gen groups have diversified kpop's sounds to the fullest. And they have also started the kpop MV aesthetics. Even BB's "Lies" and "Haru Haru"has mentioned by Billboard by bringing new experimental sound to kpop. Lost of 2nd gen group's albums are ranked in the top kpop albums of the decade. I think they are the ones who have shaped today's kpop musically & visually.
I understand. I have felt the same way for the whole of kpop community since 2017 with the Western Validation constant bash and then with the way a big part of the community reacted to the November 2018 Jimin thing. This is why I find ironic this unity against BTS and Armys. It is not as based on mutual respect as kpop fans want to think it is.
As I said in the thread though, everything is a matter of perspective when it comes to fanwars.
At the same time I do agree that the bigger a fandom gets, the messier it becomes. Being the biggest kpop fandom ever, Armys can't control the weird people who love to cause a mess.
But also look at how Nct fans are turning since they got bigger. Or how Blinks, as the other group with a substantial Western success, have been doing and saying exactly the same things Armys used to say. I guess people don't want to see it.
It is true that kpop mostly became what it is today during the 2nd gen. Crediting the ones who made a difference is what Armys have been saying when it comes to the West too but somehow it is not allowed but it is allowed for the 2nd gen. This is a little weird.
Maybe we simply see things differently and that's ok.
Only if those new fans start to talk about the past without knowing anything. Like I said, I didn’t know much about the 1. Gen, but I was never in the position where someone had to tell me learn Kpop History.
Nobody thinks it’s required for you to know Kpop History that’s nonsense, but if you want to talk about the growth of Kpop etc you should at least have some basic knowledge.
If you know nothing, keep quiet or be open to learn something new... simple as that.
Knowing the history of kpop is often considered necessary for some kpop fans.
Let me give you another perspective. The kpop community is not always a place new fans can be welcome when theit first group is BTS. That doesn't excuse dragging on their part but again it's another perspective. So the vicious circle continues.
I am one of those who thinks that kpop fans are more or less the same and the only difference is where you stand and which perspective you see.
I may be off topic here but I felt I could out it out there all the same.
As for the other part, please read my reply to Jinaland. This is the point I was trying to make.
My current opinion about ARMYs have set in the beginning of 2019. Most of it because of the constant dragging of ARMYs about the other groups I stan. Since I stan groups from every generation. I even know H.O.T and listened some songs back then. But BB was the group that completely got into kpop. Maybe I am biased since I have spent 13 years with BB and 6 years with BTS (whole fucking 7 years of difference). But everyone is biased in the end. But it's not relevant since you have said
Well I know hardly anyone gives credit. If we go back to back we might have to credit to the person who have invented music in the first place. But the thing I want is not credit. But at least not drag the senior groups. ARMYs can just not mention them. Then we could have no problem.
You are the most polite person I have argued since yesterday, thank you for that. :)
Yw!
To be honest, I don't have anything against you but you do seem to have double standards when it comes to that because from another perspective, BTS are dragged on a daily basis and that has started even before the fandom go big and there was that vicious circle of bashing everywhere. So it might seem selective, especially since you have been a fan yourself. This is not an attack, it's me trying to tell you how it might look.
God knows, I can be shady myself. Although I try to shade the fans, not the artists.
I understand what you mean. What I was trying to say was that those 1st gen groups did a lot of things to promote kpop. But it's only 2nd gen idols that are credited. I think it has to do with what you said. That there was a break and not that successful period of kpop. At least abroad.
But the foundations were there.
To me it's just weird because 2nd gen stans don't often talk about it but most talk about 2nd gen artists paving the way in other countries, maybe because the 2nd gen actually made a difference that lasted.
But people clutch their pearls when someone says the same about BTS and the West.
The way I saw it and how I remember it.
BTS never had more opportunities than EXO before the BBMAs.
Sure, SM never pushed for Western promotions and if anything they didn't take advantage of some opportunities that were given to them. I think it had more likely to do with their past failerd endeavors to promote one of their groups in the US that they thought focusing on Asia was better. They couldn't have predicted the China ban of kpop.
But the thing that made the most difference was the way both fandoms dealt with the whole issue.
I have said again that Exols showed big stubbornness when it came to Western recognition. They thought that it wasn't something that was feasible, it was a waste of time and kpop only needs Asia.
Whereas, Armys never stopped trying to find new ways to promote BTS to everyone who would listen.
When the kpop community was laughing at the Western Validation thing, Armys promoted BTS music left and right.
And when people saw great music, great performances and great personalities, they stayed.
In this regard yes H.O.T, Seich Kiss etc groups where the first idol groups. But they have all disbanded in beginning 2000. During that time due to extreme financial problem no one has dared to produce kpop idol groups again because they have thought it was unprofitable. Instead soloists & kbands were gaining tractions. But SM has created TVXQ in 2003 and saved the extinct industry. It has shown that idol groups can be profitable. So lots of other have started to produce idol groups then. Just yesterday there were thread about TVXQ. Yes the op of that thread has titled it really disrespectful towards BTS. Due to it lost of ARMYs were dragging TVXQ and BB. I have explained them their importance. But instead I have left offended and called boomer, move on from your 2nd gen groups. I have already taken credit to every kpop acts starting from Kim Sisters, Seo Taji etc. But I am really tired now.
I do know your opinions about Armys pretty well. Since you were the one who brought it up (especially here and to me when there was no reason for you to do so) , allow me to tell you that you do seem to be selective when you are outraged about bashing and fandoms. But as I said this is not relevant here.
As I said, hardly anyone ever gives credit to the groups I mentioned when it comes to certain achievements. I think at the end of the day, we all deep down want our faves to be respected when discussing these things.
Old fans who got jobs and by now even their own families. They weren’t really active when more and more people started to be part of an international community. When I joined Kpop 12 years ago there weren’t that much international 1.gen fans already. I learned about the first 1. through my faves. It’s not really comparable.
But some due tho, I have seen many bringing up the history of Kpop in several discussions in the last month. There were even users who made History Threads about different Acts and their achievements and impact in Kpop. Maybe you missed those Threads.
I think if is comparable because kpop fans often want new fans to know the history of kpop because it's not ok not to do so and show respect to older acts. I agree with the second part, tbh. Respect should be given to everyone.
In these discussions though, I rarely see kpop fans (1st, 2nd, 3rd gen stans, it doesn't matter) mention H.O.T, for example, for breaking into China. It's either Big Bang or EXO that are credited this achievement.
I think you might mean the appreciation threads of that H.O.T. fans. They didn't always get enough traction. I expected they would be more popular all things considered.
