Why do you think Sm is leading 4th gen again compared to 3rd gen?

f(x) debuted in 2009, since when were they considered 3rd generation?

all u care about is album sales . sm groups popularity is still worse compared to rest

Quote from bbb988

Even Twice sells more than Red Velvet.

Tbh, is there any kpop girl group ever existed selling more than Twice?

atleast know your generations before putting out bs.

Also NCT has multiple subunits and each of their albums have like 10 different versions that their fans buy to collect so their sales aren’t an indication of their popularity or how big their fandom is. Like their not doing bad, but let’s not exaggerate here….

This is just gonna turn into a SM group bashing thread

Quote from licoricebtch

atleast know your generations before putting out bs.

Also NCT has multiple subunits and each of their albums have like 10 different versions that their fans buy to collect so their sales aren’t an indication of their popularity or how big their fandom is. Like their not doing bad, but let’s not exaggerate here….

nct has a big fanbase in korea but they are not even top 3 bg outside. Same with aespa, they are not top 3 gg outside korea. Also, china is helping these two with the sales. So it's very concentrated and we can't feel their global popularity. They are doing alright but won't get into my top 3 gg/bg ranking.

Quote from PsychicPsycho

nct has a big fanbase in korea but they are not even top 3 bg outside. Same with aespa, they are not top 3 gg outside korea. Also, china is helping these two with the sales. So it's very concentrated and we can't feel their global popularity. They are doing alright but won't get into my top 3 gg/bg ranking.

and SM’s revenue isn’t even in the top 3 anymore so that says alot about them as a company as a whole…. what they did with Exo was great, but no one wants another group with 20+members, the general public ain’t interested.

Exo was very much a #1 bg until bts wrecked everyone. Pretty similar to how aespa is #1 gg for 4th gen. They aren't leading as we don't know how they'll do when hybe , jypn and yg ggs will debut. Ngl the competition is weak for aespa atm.

They're not leading, tho

Quote from licoricebtch

and SM’s revenue isn’t even in the top 3 anymore so that says alot about them as a company as a whole…. what they did with Exo was great, but no one wants another group with 20+members, the general public ain’t interested.

Not into sm as as a company, but I am sure this statement is false. They may only behind hybe in revenue. I recall I saw a thread with NCT sale.

Quote from licoricebtch

atleast know your generations before putting out bs.

Also NCT has multiple subunits and each of their albums have like 10 different versions that their fans buy to collect so their sales aren’t an indication of their popularity or how big their fandom is. Like their not doing bad, but let’s not exaggerate here….

I never see this 10 different versions argument used for other artists that had that before. It's not like a different version is what makes the group sell. Printing more isn't what stops top groups from getting that number. They have a repakage released shortly after their main album with regular versions that got more than million sales. Weird thing to credit everything to versions.

Quote

also NCT has multiple subunits...heir fans buy to collect so their sales aren’t an indication of their popularity

OP only mentioned one sub-unit's one album sales lol. Why bring up the multiple sub-unit's argument when one album is enough? NCT is not just "not doing bad" they're doing insanely great that all your excuses expired last year.

Quote from KangK

Not into sm as as a company, but I am sure this statement is false. They may only behind hybe in revenue. I recall I saw a thread with NCT sale.

There’s a difference between album sales and total revenue of one company.

Ofcourse a company that manages multiple groups and artists will have more album sales than another company that has less than 5 entertainers in their roster….

Quote from licoricebtch

There’s a difference between album sales and total revenue of one company.

Ofcourse a company that manages multiple groups and artists will have more album sales than another company that has less than 5 entertainers in their roster….

I can guarantee you that they are only behind hybe in revenue. Profit is a different matter because they have other business beside music.

Quote from Yumeku

I never see this 10 different versions argument used for other artists that had that before. It's not like a different version is what makes the group sell. Printing more isn't what stopping top groups from getting that number. They have a repakage released shorthly after their main album with regular versions that got over million sales. Weird thing to credit everything for versions.

OP only mentioned one sub-unit's one album sales lol. Why bring up the multiple sub-unit's argument when one album is enough? NCT is not just "not doing bad" they're doing insanely great that all your excuses expired last year.

lol if a fan wanted to increase their chance of attending a fan meet or collecting photocards they literally would have to buy all versions of the same album.

also there’s a difference betwen rereleasing an album as a repackage than releasing a single album with multiple versions at the same date. but okay.

Quote from KangK

I can guarantee you that they are only behind hybe in revenue. Profit is a different matter because they have other business beside music.

A simple google search would answer that. Their market value is not even half of Hybe’s.

Quote from PsychicPsycho

Same with aespa, they are not top 3 gg outside korea. Also, china is helping these two with the sales. So it's very concentrated and we can't feel their global popularity. They are doing alright but won't get into my top 3 gg/bg ranking.

aespa is getting super popular in Asia + china. Usually these two are the regions that catch the trending train first. Im sure the west will jump onto them soon

Again, not sure why single out china sales again. Money is money. Of course the sales will be concentrated give the purchasing power and population of China. Kpop is still a niche in majority of the western countries but for Asia, kpop has long been a staple

Quote from licoricebtch

lol if a fan wanted to increase their chance of attending a fan meet or collecting photocards they literally would have to buy all versions of the same album.

Yes because what's stopping most fans from buying more copies is that they don't have different aesthetic versions, not the money. That one can be found easily.

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also there’s a difference betwen rereleasing an album as a repackage than releasing a single album with multiple versions at the same date. but okay.

I didn't compare the two. Try to understand the post before you post your comment smh. I am saying a mere repackage -that was released of a sudden- pulled top groups' numbers in sales when it only had regular versions. Hence the 10+ different multiple versions are not the reason they're selling this well when they sold that much with regular versions of just a repackage.

Quote from licoricebtch

A simple google search would answer that. Their market value is not even half of Hybe’s.

Psss. Market value does not = revenue. take a look at that just from 2nd quarter last year. SM is behind Hybe, but both of them are way bigger than any companies.

Thread

HYBE, SM, JYP & YG Reveal Their 2nd Quarter Profits For 2021

HYBE, SM, JYP and YG reveal their 2nd quarter profits for 2021




JYP Entertainment
JYP Entertainment, which reached a net income of ₩4.80 billion KRW (about $4.12 million USD) in 2021’s second quarter. The company’s operating profit was ₩9.60 billion KRW (about $8.24 million USD) after generating ₩40.6 billion KRW (about $34.8 million USD) in sales.

While none of the companies came back earlier in the year, Q2 of 2021 saw acts like DAY6, ITZY, TWICE boost sales significantly with their new…

delicak

Aug 19th 2021

Quote from gerrard174

aespa is getting super popular in Asia + china. Usually these two are the regions that catch the trending train first. Im sure the west will jump onto them soon

their songs are not well liked in the west even though their concept is good. aespa members lack the global it factor. I hear ningning is not even popular compared to karina in china which is very telling about her star power. Giselle is attracting nothing. Winter is bland, typical sm. Only Karina is good. The group doesn't have the members to be the no.1 gg but they will do alright for themselves. Sm groups always do. Right now, there's no competition for them. And itzy is still bigger than aespa globally

Quote from PsychicPsycho

their songs are not well liked in the west even though their concept is good. aespa members lack the global it factor. I hear ningning is not even popular compared to karina in china which is very telling about her star power. Giselle is attracting nothing. Winter is bland, typical sm. Only Karina is good. The group doesn't have the members to be the no.1 gg but they will do alright for themselves. Sm groups always do. Right now, there's no competition for them. And itzy is still bigger than aespa globally

Now calm down and say it again without crying this time

Quote from Yumeku

I never see this 10 different versions argument used for other artists that had that before. It's not like a different version is what makes the group sell. Printing more isn't what stopping top groups from getting that number. They have a repakage released shorthly after their main album with regular versions that got over million sales. Weird thing to credit everything for versions.

OP only mentioned one sub-unit's one album sales lol. Why bring up the multiple sub-unit's argument when one album is enough? NCT is not just "not doing bad" they're doing insanely great that all your excuses expired last year.

You must be new to kpop. I can list more than five including two prominent SM groups who were bashed by their rival fandoms at the time (VIPs and Sones) and that would be EXO and Suju. Don't remember the albums because I don't stan at all, but remember the dragging and threads made on the old forums about how they needed 342 versions to outsell their competition. Hell, even BTS and their four versions were dragged by kpop stans (primarily exols). That's how I know you're a new kpop stan.

If OP never mentioned BTS and even their lie of NCT rivaling (in what world) their sales for 2021, I wouldn't be here giving SM acts a iota of my time but here we are. The one year where BTS only gave us 4 songs is the year SM stans decided to be brave and bounce back as if they aren't releasing 392842 more units and albums and collectively combining sales to beat 1 act. I wouldn't be proud and hype that if I was a fan but nct fans will keep combining 33241 units regardless.

One word, Aespa.

Quote from PsychicPsycho

their songs are not well liked in the west even though their concept is good. aespa members lack the global it factor. I hear ningning is not even popular compared to karina in china which is very telling about her star power. Giselle is attracting nothing. Winter is bland, typical sm. Only Karina is good. The group doesn't have the members to be the no.1 gg but they will do alright for themselves. Sm groups always do. Right now, there's no competition for them. And itzy is still bigger than aespa globally

Winter is more popular than Karina in most parts of the world, that's including Korea. Karina is just a slight notch above Winter in term of china popularity. Their merchs price is about the same while there is a HUGE gap with the other two. And yes youre correct, ningning is not that popular even in China, her home country.

Kwangya Impact

or should i say Navis Impact

Quote from n_u_g_u

If OP never mentioned BTS and even their lie of NCT rivaling (in what world) their sales for 2021, I wouldn't be here giving SM acts a iota of my time but here we are. The one year where BTS only gave us 4 songs is the year SM stans decided to be brave and bounce back as if they aren't releasing 392842 more units and albums and collectively combining sales to beat 1 act. I wouldn't be proud and hype that if I was a fan but nct fans will keep combining 33241 units regardless.

Despicable as usual but who's surprised.

Anyway, Super Junior didn't need to release multiple individual covers to outsell their competion since they had already been the best selling boy group even before that. Super Junior had the best selling album from a boy group between 2009 and 2012 and Mr Simple (2011) which had individual covers wasn't even their best selling album, even though that was arguably their peak year, which only goes to prove Yumeku's point about how not having individual covers won't stop fans from buying as many copies as they want.

Quote from gerrard174

Winter is more popular than Karina in most parts of the world, that's including Korea. Karina is just a slight notch above Winter in term of china popularity. Their merchs price is about the same while there is a HUGE gap with the other two. And yes youre correct, ningning is not that popular even in China, her home country.

not true. Their popularity is pretty equal and karina is more popular in most parts of the world while winter is also popular here and there. I just used google trends to confirm this.

Quote from gerrard174

aespa is getting super popular in Asia + china. Usually these two are the regions that catch the trending train first. Im sure the west will jump onto them soon

Again, not sure why single out china sales again. Money is money. Of course the sales will be concentrated give the purchasing power and population of China. Kpop is still a niche in majority of the western countries but for Asia, kpop has long been a staple

Not sure any groups beside BTS and Blackpink can get attention from the west. So discussing about this point is kinda moot. Most kpop streams are concentrated in asia, and this is OK.

I suspected aespa might have the biggest sale for their next full album behind Blackpink given their popularity korea, china and slowly rising in Japan.

Quote from chounim

Despicable as usual but who's surprised.

Anyway, Super Junior didn't need to release multiple individual covers to outsell their competion since they had already been the best selling boy group even before that. Super Junior had the best selling album from a boy group between 2009 and 2012 and Mr Simple (2011) which had individual covers wasn't even their best selling album, even though that was arguably their peak year, which only goes to prove Yumeku's point about how not having individual covers won't stop fans from buying as many copies as they want.

Imo not having individual covers will cause fans to buy even more copies of group versions just to get their fave pc. This is even crazier for big groups cause imagine 10 members with 4 pc - the probability of getting the particular one pc you want is only 2.5%.

Quote from KangK

Not sure any groups beside BTS and Blackpink can get attention from the west. So discussing about this point is kinda moot. Most kpop streams are concentrated in asia, and this is OK.

I suspected aespa might have the biggest sale for their next full album behind Blackpink given their popularity korea, china and slowly rising in Japan.

Definitely. Their popularity in asia is no joke. My country is always a good indicator of rising kpop group - and their photocards are currently the most expensive out of all kpop groups, even more expensive than Blackpink!!! (Of course karina and winter only...)

Quote from PsychicPsycho

not true. Their popularity is pretty equal and karina is more popular in most parts of the world while winter is also popular here and there. I just used google trends to confirm this.

relax... they just turned 1 year old lmao u expect them to be what? jennie level? pretty sure their individual popularity level is still higher than any other girl group in their debuting in the same year or even surpassed those who debuted 1 or 2 years ago and they already achieved that in one year

Quote from n_u_g_u

You must be new to kpop. I can list more than five including two prominent SM groups who were bashed by their rival fandoms at the time (VIPs and Sones) and that would be EXO and Suju. Don't remember the albums because I don't stan at all, but remember the dragging and threads made on the old forums about how they needed 342 versions to outsell their competition. Hell, even BTS and their four versions were dragged by kpop stans (primarily exols). That's how I know you're a new kpop stan.

I am not new but it was never to this level. It's gotten ridiculous like it's their only argument.

Quote

If OP never mentioned BTS and even their lie of NCT rivaling (in what world) their sales for 2021, I wouldn't be here giving SM acts a iota of my time but here we are. The one year where BTS only gave us 4 songs is the year SM stans decided to be brave and bounce back as if they aren't releasing 392842 more units and albums and collectively combining sales to beat 1 act. I wouldn't be proud and hype that if I was a fan but nct fans will keep combining 33241 units regardless.

I don't know OP's intentions but from what I got is that he/she meant Sticker having close sales to Butter is a big achievement. Since BTS is the standard. Mentioning their name isn't necessarily to mean they're close in achievements but it's a way of saying x group achievement was huge. Like saying aespa's Next Level outcharted Butter to no.1 in Melon24hits. Saying that shows how big of an achievement it was more than just saying aespa got no.1.

Because BTS is the biggest act in the world and getting close numbers to one of their singles is huge. It doesn't mean the person saying that means that the group is doing as good as BTS.

Quote

as if they aren't releasing 392842 more units and albums

There are only three units (two of them were there from debut and have shared members, and one has been there since 2019). NCT Dream, NCT 127, and Wayv.

NCT Dream only released one album and its repackage in the whole 2021. NCT 127 only released one Korean album and its repackage in 2021. WayV only released an ep with no repackage.

Their units release less albums than regular groups yet sell more. 4th gen groups are surpassing NCT units' entire career in releasing more albums overall. Saying they release "392842 more units and albums" couldn't be more wrong.

So in a year we are again at how sm groups are not real popular.

LSM must be happy because in the last years we were discussing the failure of the company

With all that fake money of fake NCT sales they built a fake kwangya reality

Quote from gerrard174

Imo not having individual covers will cause fans to buy even more copies of group versions just to get their fave pc. This is even crazier for big groups cause imagine 10 members with 4 pc - the probability of getting the particular one pc you want is only 2.5%.

Might be true but not necessarily. Pcs aren't the only reason fans buy multiple versions, there's also the prospect of getting into fansigns or simply wanting their faves to break records and/or win awards. There are many ways companies can manipulate fans into bulk buying. I remember in SNSD's IGAB album, instead of simply having individual covers, they had individual photobooks, like imagine 30 to 40 pages photobooks of just one member. I can imagine how that might be even more tempting than individual covers or even photocards and how fans would want to buy more than just one, especially that aside from the random photocard, you couldn't have any photos of the other members in those versions.

why is there always so much discussion about NCT sales?

Yes, without combining units together NCT is still one of kpop best album sellers. Only three groups have received 2M certs from goan, two NCT units (ON Their OWN) have done it and i don't think that is something to make fun of.

Quote from chounim

Might be true but not necessarily. Pcs aren't the only reason fans buy multiple versions, there's also the prospect of getting into fansigns or simply wanting their faves to break records and/or win awards. There are many ways companies can manipulate fans into bulk buying. I remember in SNSD's IGAB album, instead of simply having individual covers, they had individual photobooks, like imagine 30 to 40 pages photobooks of just one member. I can imagine how that might be even more tempting than individual covers or even photocards and how fans would want to buy more than just one, especially that aside from the random photocard, you couldn't have any photos of the other members in those versions.

What i meant was to boost sales (and increase revenue), company might be better off selling only one version but with as many random inclusions. Fans/stans will bulk buy just for inclusions (that include pc, cover, photobook etc). Solo versions might not be commercially viable for groups with big popularity gap afterall

Quote from Haolat

why is there always so much discussion about NCT sales?

Yes, without combining units together NCT is still one of kpop best album sellers. Only three groups have received 2M certs from goan, two NCT units (ON Their OWN) have done it and i don't think that is something to make fun of.

I think we have all established the fact it's not safe to celebrate NCT's success and achievements. It makes people here feel a certain way. (miserable)

Quote from chounim

I think we have all established the fact it's not safe to celebrate NCT's success and achievements. It makes people here feel a certain way. (miserable)

tbh i don't understand why there is always this kind of reaction to NCT's success.

Quote from gerrard174

What i meant was to boost sales (and increase revenue), company might be better off selling only one version but with as many random inclusions. Fans/stans will bulk buy just for inclusions (that include pc, cover, photobook etc). Solo versions might not be commercially viable for groups with big popularity gap afterall

I remember Heechul once saying something about printing fewer photocards of the more popular members lol. But I can't remember if it he was describing how it was done or just making a suggestion (they once had a vlive comeback show that showed the behind works in preparation for their albums and had a segment where Heechul kept jokingly making ridiculous suggestions to maximise sales and concluded that he could potentially end up in jail if he was truly in charge lol)

Seriously though, I personally agree that multiple versions, especially individual covers, are unnecessary and redundant for established group. I don't believe for a second that any of the top sellers in kpop would sell any less without all the versions.

The only thing I can get behind is the jewel case version. Non fans can make fun of it all they want, and many fans might abuse it to maximise sales but at the end of the day it's still a very affordable alternative for fans who genuinely want to buy their faves albums but can't afford the expensive regular photobook version.