We cannot lower the standards for digital success for any group.

I think your standard for flop is too high

A flop song for me would have less than 1 million, something like Mago that has ~700k Melon ULs

Regarding Melon UL counts and Gaon Digital Points....did you revise your standards lower to account for the across the board reduction in both of those metrics since the beginning of 2020? I feel like 850M - 900M points for songs released in 2020-2021 are equivalent to 1B points for songs released in 2018-2019. I feel like 4M UL on Melon for songs released in 2020-2021 are equivalent to 5M UL on Melon for songs released before then.

doesnt that make every bg song except bts flop

I think I'll keep the cut off for hit at 500M itself as the points r down. Before i wouldn't consider anything that didn't pass 650M digital index a hit.

Also for flop i think it should be lowered to below 250-270M as again points r dead. I mean songs chart for 25 weeks and only have such points.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

used KTL as my benchmark for the digital points actually. It didn't tank, so 560 million points is respectable.

Lowering the "flop" threshold though? I can concede that.

Again it was a 2019 release. Do u think it would have had same digital points in 2020? I don't think so.

Just look at how high dalla dalla's points r compared to gg songs in 2020 that charted much better and longer. I would keep 500M as threshold but most hits exceed this anyways even now.

How long does it take for a song to reach hit status?

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

How long? Depending on how long it charts. Every song is different.

Some songs stop charting top 100 but still gain ULs for a long time, like FIRE.

Given the 550M+ digital points, I would say at least 6 months? It's just to have an idea of when we can start saying if it is a flop or a hit.

So BTS, Cheer Up, Love Scenario and nothing else

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

You might think I made this point about one particular group, but it's something I've been thinking about this topic for a while.

I've seen people say many times now that X song:

• is a hit ("national" or otherwise)
• performed decently
• flopped/underperformed/tanked.

The difference between which of those 3 is said depends on the group that released the song, which is really unfair. Regardless of past success or underperformance with a song (or multiple), each song should be viewed objectively on its own.

Here are some metrics (Melon ULs, Genie ULs, digital points) for each tier that I think are fair, using Instiz's chart share breakdown:

Small methodology

I set Melon ULs using https://xn--o39an51b2re.com/melon/artiststream, used these percentages as linked above,

Melon (approximately 40% market share)

Genie (about 24% market share) [aka 60% or .6 of Melon's market share]

Flo (approximately 18% market share)

Vibe (approximately 5-10% market share)

Bugs (less than about 5% market share)

Soribada (less than 1% market share)

, and then used my own limits for digital points, as I have a giant spreadsheet of the top 100 idol songs and top 100 general songs ranked by digital points that I update weekly.

Hit: 3M+ Melon ULs, 1.8M+ Genie ULs, 550M+ digital points

Decent (avg. performance): 1.5-2.99 Melon ULs, 900K-1.79M Genie ULs, 275M-549M digital points

Flop: <1.49M Melon ULs, <900k Genie ULs , <275M digital points

If a song hits 2 out 3, it qualifies for each tier.

Downloads are now so hard to get that any song that can hit 2.5M nowadays is a megahit (only 4 songs released in 2019 or later have hit the mark as of now).

Display More

by your definition aespa next level is flop.

We? Lol, Kpoopies sometimes take this shit and themselves so serious, Its embarrasing

These days if some group chart decently, nothing exceptional, everyone starts saying it is big hit. That is now how it works.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

If you actually read the replies and not just my OP, 6 months is a good waiting period to judge.

Obviously, some people want immediate results. But that's not how charts work. Some songs are clear hits right out of the gate, some are sleepers, and some peak incredibly high only to have shit longevity.

Prime Example :- When We Disco

Top 50 melon is a hit nowadays, right?

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

I used KTL as my benchmark for the digital points actually. It didn't tank, so 560 million points is respectable.

Lowering the "flop" threshold though? I can concede that. 275M is a good mark.

the points dropped as a whole in general, look at top 10 yearly, 10th place yearly in 2019 had 830 mil points, in 2020 didn't even reached 700 mil, the best selling song in 2019 reached 1 billion, no song in 2020 reached 1 billion, in 2018 3 songs reached 1 billion, the points drop every year

Meh, I prefer the metric of any song I dislike is a flop.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

I'm very well aware. It looks like 2021 will be a slight improvement over 2020 though.

I'm not sure, if you look at this past 4 monthly charts, only in like 2 months the 1st place has bigger points but by 4th place the points are already smaller, the overall points seams even smaller than 2020.

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

Yes. That's why you see people say "It's a hit for a boy group" but not "It's a hit". They have to add "boy group" as a qualifier.

I do that and I don't see what's wrong with it. Certain songs are hits for bg standards and they are released by bgs so we can't act like contexts doesn't matter or like ggs don't receive much more attention and unique listeners than bgs for merely the fact of being ggs. It's like saying Twice physicals are not good because bgs tend to sell much more. Hit is also a very wide term and at the end of the day is subjective. National hit is a different thing as well. Digitals only tell a part of the history.

Quote from itzysmidzy

by your definition aespa next level is flop.

Living in your delulu mind rent free

‘That’s okay’ is not a flop you take that back massive

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

Group, not soloist. Kyungsoo's fine.

That song is a example where you have to take into consideration various factors if digitals are not enough....

Quote from MassiveKpopFan

Some songs have latent impact. and that's why my criteria doesn't fit all songs.

Yuppp. But don't worry, you are doing good job.

Is this a joke? 549M index is decent but 550M+ is hit. what's the difference?