What's your stance on plastic surgery discussions?

Pointless and borderline primitive

Their body,their choice.Unless they're blatantly lying about it,they shouldn't have fingers pointed at them for it.

Quote from bobsyouruncle

no this is why plastic surgery threads discussions shouldnt be had... i said that based on a pattern which is easily observable but here you took me saying that in the worst possible outcome and called them "plastic" which was never a word i used... especially when its got negative connotations.

y'all weird

implying is indirectly saying it. You say you have seen a pattern but that is in your own mind. 4th gen idols also have grown up in digital age where it is easy to see all there photos from childhood and teenage compared to previous gen. Not to mention idols or any celebrities dont get plastic surgery only before debut. But they get it done throughout their career.

Also you call o____lyu a decent discussion when they target certain idols and make fun of idols looks. That is not a normal discussion but mean and veiled insulting towards idols they want to. This forum is also where lot of antis use info. I have seen on youtube comments where they will repeat all the speculations done on that forum and speak it like its the truth.

If you want to have plastic surgsry discussion why not talk about the companies who are forcing or indirectly pressurizing trainees to have plastic surgery.

If people actually want to stop companies from forcing plastic surgery. Why they dont get together and give petitions to big3 companies?? Why it is about targetjng and analysing idols in detail?? There is no sympathy or understanding towards idols who were young and under pressure. Instead of catching the real culprit who are compan management they want to demean idols.

Quote from Noyzmuzik

implying is indirectly saying it. You say you have seen a pattern but that is in your own mind. 4th gen idols also have grown up in digital age where it is easy to see all there photos from childhood and teenage compared to previous gen. Not to mention idols or any celebrities dont get plastic surgery only before debut. But they get it done throughout their career.

Also you call o____lyu a decent discussion when they target certain idols and make fun of idols looks. That is not a normal discussion but mean and veiled insulting towards idols they want to. This forum is also where lot of antis use info. I have seen on youtube comments where they will repeat all the speculations done on that forum and speak it like its the truth.

If you want to have plastic surgsry discussion why not talk about the companies who are forcing or indirectly pressurizing trainees to have plastic surgery.

If people actually want to stop companies from forcing plastic surgery. Why they dont get together and give petitions to big3 companies?? Why it is about targetjng and analysing idols in detail?? There is no sympathy or understanding towards idols who were young and under pressure. Instead of catching the real culprit who are compan management they want to demean idols.

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Yes i didnt go in much detail about the pattern since thats too long and this threads purpose doesnt seem to be about actually discussing ps but whether its ok to.. regardless since you asked: its obvious if you see the 4th gen idols debuting now and ones in previous gen it does really appear that their companies are pressuring them to debut outright "perfectly" and matching the ideal beauty standards, like how many idols have we seen with jaw shaves to fit v line trend ... and tbh its not hard to understand when you look at how difficult and how much higher the standards have gotten in kpop, visuals have such an importance in kpop. I didnt deny idols also get surgery throughout their career, this should be common knowledge to anyone who keeps up with kpop idols or even anyone with internet access to see old photos.

Also ive talked about companies pressuring idols with this before just not in this thread.. and about OH i guess it just comes down to how we interpret peoples posts, im more willing to give benefit of the doubt when the whole thread appears to just be discussion based and in good faith(ones ive seen from last time i viewed the ps thread) but if you want to look at it negatively then youre free to do so.

Its a shame youre viewing my posts in a bad light when we're clearly having an insightful discussion in all the other ways that matter

Quote from dummi

This is fiction and will never ever work and you know it. You think kpop fans should form a "save young idols" union and make a change.org petition and thatd be the end? This industry has been like this for years. We are discussing whether its okay to talk about it, not what we should do to stop evil kpop company #25. We cant do anything about that

if i wanna complain in an akp forum or have discussions then let me without bringing the kpop justice defence league into it

To me it's the same way as discussing about doping in professional sports such as football, rugby or bodybuilding : everyone does it but hides it very well

"You don't go to war with a knife"

I think it's a stupid discussion, it's their life not yours.

Discussing PS should definitely be normalized since every idol and actor and celebrity in Korea and every other country in the world does it.

Personally I think there's too many threads on it like with sexual orientation ones. I don't care who has had plastic surgery as long as they don't go too far with it that they are unrecognisable. It's their body, their business. Fans can be really judgy imo and need to stop.

If you are working in the industry which is based off of lookism, you will definitely get something done at some point of your life. Everyone including my favs got some sort of work done be it minimal or maximal. So I just don't get the whole discourse of the pointless discussions over it.

The problem is people don’t understand nuance and often divert attention on both side.

Plastic surgery or say even idols extremely thin statures exists because of a toxic beauty standard. This is a fact.

One one hand people who believe in “choice” feminism will brush this off without any nuance saying that it was their choice and hence valid. Not every choice made instills power. Buying into toxic beauty standards is not worthy of praise IMO nor should it be free of criticism.

But at the same time we have people who will villainize others for subscribing to toxic trends. Which is also not right. And does not consider the big picture of the influence of society on women, on young minds etc

(I use feminist here broadly it also encompasses anything there of)

Over all people who talk without nuance annoy tf out me.

For me its b i guess trying to guess or argue what idol had what done it just stupid and pointless to me especially since its basically always targeted at female idols.

If your discussing stuff done by and idol who has openly admitted to doing it go for it but making assumptions to me is just strange. People will say that ps doesnt matter but when a fan says that their idol is a natural beauty they will argue tooth and nail to prove that they did or didnt. Just goes to show that kpop fans are bs about this subject.

Quote from Noyzmuzik

i dont think plastic surgery discussions should be allowed because everyone calls themselves open minded but they will point fingers at other idols and never on their own idols. It is used by antis to hate on an idol or groups. Here in this thread only you read somone writes that 4th gen idols are getting more plastic surgery. Just another way to say 4th gen idols are all plastic and 3rd gen idol have less work done. Is it not implying even if its not saying it.

There is some youtuber who used to do plastic surgery analysis of western celebrities and one celebrity called her lying. Even if she got work done she did not want to accept. Is then necessary to talk publicly about what plastic surgery she had. Even if she is denying because of discomfort or whatever reason.

you know that kim kardashian said that she hadn't touched her face, she just has good skin care routine come on, we are not blind, we can see that you look different from 10 years ago, nay, from 2 years ago both in face and body.

they are lying because they are selling perfection, perfection is their brand. hense the meltdown of khloe kardashian when a photo where she looks like a normal human being was leaked. she even tried to delete it from the internet lol. they use filters all the time, editing pictures to make them look perfect. everyone knows they are lying but for some reason everyone goes with it.

idols sell perfection too. in kpop visuals are extremely important and if you don't look perfect you're going to be dragged. i forgot the name of the boy group who was bullied for being ugly.

yes, all idols had work done including my fave(s). being pretty is part of their job

I think it should be discussed just so people can realize how normal plastic surgery is in the entertainment industry. It would give caution to people who want to join the industry and for others to not view their appearance any lower because they don't fit the beauty standards.

Sadly this can't be done because there's still a stigma around plastic surgery in society. Not to mention how people who bring up these topics usually have negative intentions behind them.

the issue isn't really plastic surgery per se but rather the respect and common sense to be able to have a conversation without resorting to name calling or shaming or anything like that..

it might not even be PS but one can turn literally any topic into a shit show if one wants....

the starting point should be respectful of other people's opinions since a discussion is a discussion not a debate nor a vote on who's right and who's wrong...a discussion should be for the purpose of understanding the situation better - to see opposing points of view