Let be real here.

    I have heard a lot of people saying fan defending their faves about the bully allegation when fans don't even know them and such.

    However, if this bully allegation happening on your faves, I bet you will do the same and start saying that X is not that kind of person.

    Yeah, you all are just going to say you are not that kind of person, right now. However, you will never know until it happens.

    People-will-never-truly-understand-something-until-it-happens-to-them.jpg

    :pepe-use-head::pepe-use-head:

    Quote from haoluvr

    thinking of multiple users who were like "THEY DID IT YOUR FAVE IS A BULLY" and now that their fave is being accused they're screaming "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY"

    I am staying neutral

    When I'm with you, a magical thing happens


    I mean, when the victims bring receipts like the last Mingyu victim did, you support them. That's what decent people do.

    Idol doesn't mean "impervious". Even if you can't support the victim, at least stay silent. Don't further the bullying by accusing the victim. It doesn't matter if the idol was your fav in the entertainment industry, there's a reason it's called the ENTERTAINMENT industry. In real life, if people are getting hurt, that's not okay.

    the thing is: all of us, kpop stans (or stans of any person in general), have a floor made of glass beneath us. so, when you see somebody's fave being accused of something, don't say things such as "mine would never do it", beacuse tomorrow, it might be yours...

    Quote from aristophenes

    I mean, when the victims bring receipts like the last Mingyu victim did, you support them. That's what decent people do.

    Idol doesn't mean "impervious". Even if you can't support the victim, at least stay silent. Don't further the bullying by accusing the victim. It doesn't matter if the idol was your fav in the entertainment industry, there's a reason it's called the ENTERTAINMENT industry. In real life, if people are getting hurt, that's not okay.

    I'm completely neutral in most things and I have been bullied as a child but I got to ask

    do you believe in the presumption of innocence?

    and the right to a fair and impartial trial (ie. natural justice)

    I would never defend them actually. Cus in the back of my head I am pretty convinced that good looking, popular, rich people are genuinely most likely to abuse their power more than anyone else. If I would be honest I guess that entertainment, politics and business probably have the highest rates of jerks and assholes

    Ofc I wouldnt hate on them either. As long as nothing is proven, everything is in the open. As soon as something is proven against them, they are simply dead to me.

    Quote from selfmate

    I'm completely neutral in most things and I have been bullied as a child but I got to ask

    do you believe in the presumption of innocence?

    and the right to a fair and impartial trial (ie. natural justice)

    "Completely neutral" is a joke because people are always affected by past influences and you go on to immediately say you've been bullied as a child, but okay. Fine. Let's pretend you're completely neutral.


    Yes people have a right to a trial. Will the victim here get a neutral trial against a very famous idol, either in the press or in person? (hint: no. If you think that's possible, that's naivete on a level I can't work with) When someone gives up receipts like this, sure keep believing in your idol's innocence, but the rest of us don't have to do that. I come from a background of dealing with HIPAA in the US, because I regularly have to do HIPAA requests and deal with HIPAA regulations. When someone shares their private medical information, that's something you RESPECT. That person has nothing else left to lose, they are giving up their therapy information to prove their case.


    So yes, I believe in a fair and impartial trial. Do I believe the victim here will ever get one? No. Natural justice? Don't make me laugh. All justice is human justice, which means that only some of it is fair, and if you're famous, the scales of justice tilt HEAVILY in your direction. Juries are famously unpredictable, especially if one of the parties is famous. So don't come back to me with this "natural justice" bullshit. I do believe in fair trials. I don't believe the person making these allegations will ever receive one.

    Quote from aristophenes

    "Completely neutral" is a joke because people are always affected by past influences and you go on to immediately say you've been bullied as a child, but okay. Fine. Let's pretend you're completely neutral.


    Yes people have a right to a trial. Will the victim here get a neutral trial against a very famous idol, either in the press or in person? (hint: no. If you think that's possible, that's naivete on a level I can't work with) When someone gives up receipts like this, sure keep believing in your idol's innocence, but the rest of us don't have to do that. I come from a background of dealing with HIPAA in the US, because I regularly have to do HIPAA requests and deal with HIPAA regulations. When someone shares their private medical information, that's something you RESPECT. That person has nothing else left to lose, they are giving up their therapy information to prove their case.


    So yes, I believe in a fair and impartial trial. Do I believe the victim here will ever get one? No. Natural justice? Don't make me laugh. All justice is human justice, which means that only some of it is fair, and if you're famous, the scales of justice tilt HEAVILY in your direction. Juries are famously unpredictable, especially if one of the parties is famous. So don't come back to me with this "natural justice" bullshit. I do believe in fair trials. I don't believe the person making these allegations will ever receive one.

    the bolded part - i like to think of myself as one...but I might not be


    but for the trial isn't the accused of such crimes (or in this case bullying) be afforded the right to a fair trial as oppose to the accuser?

    for cases such as these bullying accusations the court of public opinion seems more important but that shouldn't detract from the presumption of innocence though?

    for such receipts they haven't been tested or responded to? thus the neutrality part, until such receipts can be validated tested and cross-examined...and i say that by saying the accused evidence if any should also be subject to such scrutiny...

    I"m not familiar with HIPAA - since I"m not in the US maybe you can summaries it for me.


    why do you believe that the accuser should get a fair trial when they aren't on trial - on what basis do you make such claims? I agree with your position that the rich and famous get better treatment - that doesn't detract from the right to natural justice though correct? i mean just because someone is rich and powerful they should still be subject and give natural justice just like the lesser fortunate though?

    I'm sorry if you didn't understand what I was saying! HIPAA is the medical privacy law in the US. It protects the privacy of medical information, and there's a LOT you have to go through to get through medical privacy here. No one can release your information without you (or a legal representative) requesting it, and if anybody even talks about a person being in the hospital, HIPAA laws get them in big trouble. Therapy information would be sacrosanct, it would be SO DIFFICULT to access. For a person to reveal their therapy information would be very rare, very unusual. For someone's therapist to even let them see this information would be unusual. In the US, this information usually would be very secret and very protected.


    I only said that the accuser would never get a fair trial because I don't think they should be on trial... but they are on trial from the group's fans. I agree that the rich and powerful should still be subject to justice, but the fact is... they aren't. So yes, I totally agree with you. I just understand the justice system here in the US, and don't think it will be much different in Korea, and hope it doesn't mean the victim will ultimately end up in a worse position, and the wealthy idol will come out all right, even if he doesn't deserve it. I do 110% think idols should face up to what they've done, even if it's not easy. I just don't have a lot of faith in the system getting it done.


    Does that explain better? I can answer questions if I'm not coming across clearly.

    Quote from aristophenes

    I'm sorry if you didn't understand what I was saying! HIPAA is the medical privacy law in the US. It protects the privacy of medical information, and there's a LOT you have to go through to get through medical privacy here. No one can release your information without you (or a legal representative) requesting it, and if anybody even talks about a person being in the hospital, HIPAA laws get them in big trouble. Therapy information would be sacrosanct, it would be SO DIFFICULT to access. For a person to reveal their therapy information would be very rare, very unusual. For someone's therapist to even let them see this information would be unusual. In the US, this information usually would be very secret and very protected.


    I only said that the accuser would never get a fair trial because I don't think they should be on trial... but they are on trial from the group's fans. I agree that the rich and powerful should still be subject to justice, but the fact is... they aren't. So yes, I totally agree with you. I just understand the justice system here in the US, and don't think it will be much different in Korea, and hope it doesn't mean the victim will ultimately end up in a worse position, and the wealthy idol will come out all right, even if he doesn't deserve it. I do 110% think idols should face up to what they've done, even if it's not easy. I just don't have a lot of faith in the system getting it done.


    Does that explain better? I can answer questions if I'm not coming across clearly.

    thank you for your explanation of HIPAA I looked it up myself after reading your post...


    I completely agree with what I bolded - that is very true...certain fans from such groups act like rabid dogs when it comes to their favs...I also tend not to blame an entire fandom for the actions of a few vocal minority. They shouldn't do that but its the internet...the accuser should sue or take whatever action they deem neccessary to protect themselves as well (if they can afford it... :/ )


    the second part i bolded i also agree with you - I'm the farthest person from being an idealist once you get to know me lol but the goal of achieving justice (or natural justice) is sometimes the best that we have...there is never a perfect justice system anywhere in the world but the best that we can do is to strive to make it better...probably wont happen especially since the court of public opinion is just as bad as witch trials or the inquisition...


    I'll leave with with this which i think you'll enjoy... ;-)


    It is now irrelevant whether Soojin bullied someone or not... - The K-Lounge - allkpop forums

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