China is still closed to KPop and KPop acts cannot do concerts there and any sales there are just circumstantial, all added to Korean numbers
circumstantial
fucking lol.
Yeah, I should expect this level of material and economic analysis from a guy who couldn't understand the economic and culural loss fifty fifty incured by not having spotlight with the barbie movie
Just like her role model who is popular in Korea and China and completely irrelevant outside of there
Yknock, that's weird. I thought your whole thing was global relevance... but suddenly IU mattering in the largest country on the planet with the biggest population is irrelevant?
I guess international power doesn't actually matter when it doesn't let you do your stupid ancient aliens thinly veiled racist brain worm conspiracy fuckery. But we all knew that already.
How about doing what you're good at rather than quote me.
Maybe try and compare BTS to the battle of waterloo or some equally asininely dumb as shit thing.
But in global votes she was 9th. Her votes was highest because Korean votes become 70%. I-fans are planning to boycott groups with minors. Look at Newjeans, many refused to support them because of their age, what if people also boycotted this group.
Sure, and I'm saying that matters little. You split hat up by country and those numbers mean a lot less when you consider who accounts for a majority of sales for these idols.
Oh new jeans?
The biggest GG of Gen 4?
That New Jeans?
I know you enjoy sayin braindead shit but I'll put it in simple terms you can undersand.
Talk is cheap.
Are you even sure Babymonster is actually debuting this year?
Tons of people.
This os the equivalent of people asking why anybody wants to watch the manufactured product that is kpop.
Like have some self awareness.
If people can enjoy books, cars, movies, people on tiktok mimicking game characters
They can enjoy people using an avatar to sing.
You making this shit more difficult than it needs to be.
Display Moreokay, but the whole point of virtual celebrity is to not expect things that is allowed to expect from human public figure and vice versa as a labor. It is not about being less than human. Because with human, the human being/ego and persona cannot be separated, whereas that’s expected from such virtual singers.
In example in original post OP already said how the virtual characters not being owned by the singers, that’s a whole different legal matters regarding income and IP. There’s next to zero money got into the singers’ pocket for print CF, caricatured merch, voiceless ads like the ones on billboard, etc. for idols, that’s their main income when they’re not a touring artists. even when the group disbanded, people still recognize the former idol, but the virtual avatar will always be the animations owned by the agency while the singers probably gain next to zero public recognition visual wise. We have to remember that visual is idol industry’s priority
I think the more relevant comparison is being fans of daniel radcliffe and fans of the character harry potter. Daniel can play numerous roles and even being on other media such as broadway on, but the character harry potter exist in his pwn universe and can only work outside of it when rowling and universal allowed it. However with harry potter maybe we don’t have to expect to be a serial cheater (unless designed to be), whereas with daniel, the chance is not zero. Because harry is IP, daniel is not, even though both fans probably use daniel’s face as harry potter for reference.
i can also go on and on about virtual celebrity can opt out of being a moral and political being while that’s impossible with human, but i’m not ready into existentialism right now. I’m just saying idol group and virtual idol group is not interchangeable because the difference is more than “singer is made up avatar”
See, this right here just speaks to a lack of wherewithal to the workings on vritual artists. Half of the things you criticize are already established issues inherent to Idols. They rarely own the names or copyrights that are branded specific to them. Beast is not Beast, cause Cube owns Beast, even though everyone and their mother knows the idols who made up the line up were the singers and the revenue for their work is near wholesale monopolized by the company.
This is split hairs over minutia. There are idols who don't own the avatars, but the personas originate from those idols. The mo-cap is done by them, so the "animations" are their own personal movements. They may be movements done in a green screen, but how is that so far removed from box m/v sets?
I think the harry potter vs daniel radcliffe comparison falls flat cause they parties are not restricted to the confines of a media, they are interactive bodies that communicate with people.
If you were to abandon your account right now, that doesn't suddenly mean that every post you made was just the ones and zeroes of generated script.
Hell, the first major virtual youtuber/idol fell out of favor cause the company chose to replace the woman behind the avatar. Because people weren't there for just the avatar, they were there for the person that used it.
When I say a virtual idol is not inhuman, I'm not pointing at an avatar and going that is a person. I am saying that the person manning the avatar is the idol.
Just like how I'm not having this conversation with the gif loop of Namjoon in a turtle neck, I'm having it with the person who chose to use that image.
Pre-seungri what major issues tho?
The hit and run was ruled as unpreventable by the court since judge ruled there was no way Daesung could see him from where his car was.
As for weed.....cultural differences I guess. Weed is harmless (compared to something that actually kills millions of people a year which is legal aka alcohol) and is also legal where I live so I don't see the issue at all with what GD or TOP did. But I can see how others would view it as a problem.
As some one who has been following kpop since 2012, lemme tell you, what's real has never stopped narratives.
People to this day still bring up things like that. Even when they know it was eronious. It's not about what's true, it's about what you can use to sling mud.
Most of what Icaro is saying is pretty spot on for the most part.
maybe what KpopJop means is the human soul opposed to physical existence? the complex combination of nature and nurture, the lived in context as member of society? because if so i completely agree.
i.e. you can't ask random virtual character if they have random childhood memories, everything depends on how deep and well thought the virtual world building is. and even then "build" and "lived" has very different connotation, build means they have to support the current characteristic of a persona to make sense or justify the extra cost of labor, while lived just simply exist, accepting and reacting to many external aspects that has nothing to do with the human but still as impacted
on topic: i think why virtual idols works now is because the strong attachment to online media content and screen for public as opposed of the importance of stage performance used to be for singers/artists. and as long as the music and content is as well made as the animation, it's all good for the fans
See, this might work as a point of contention if these were autonomous constructs purely borrowing the voices of a VA and nothing more. But we're not talking about a Hatsune miku that is an inactive body beyond what coded language is put into it.
We're just talking about the active avatars of singers and personalities which just happen to be drawn.
Somebody from Plave or Isegye Idol is just as likely to curse you out in the moment if you were to interact with them as somebody from say TXT or IVE is to just give you a canned response provided by their company.
This distinction doesn't work for what's effectively just 3d profile pictures.
fair
still pretty high among foreigners considering literally none of them have ever made it and are clearly not welcome
You can literally say this about multiple high barrier for entry jobs that are super desirable. Especialpy ones in foreign countries.
I see it as no different from people who wanna draw manga. It doesn't need some deep analysis.
It's popular, people like it
Simple.
you are utterly confounding. I'm not talking about animations coded into a prescripted video.
I'm speaking about things like a person's voice and their captured motions.
The fact that you can conflate voice with animations and code is baffling.
You keep saying my responses are conceening, but every subsequent post seems to suhgest such a lack of perceptiveness of being that doesn't go beyond what you can see that I really gotta question your basis.
people are trying to equate the human and the virtual idol. doesn’t that seem weird to you? My avatar isn’t trying to be a human, it’s not the same as you claiming the equality of humans and walls of pretty code
virtual idols are less interesting, dynamic, and self-actualised. Kpop idols already have limited self-expression and non-humans strip that to unforeseen lows. They take something that could be interesting and dilute it further
Like I said, at best they are a containment method for those who “need” vacuum-sealed perfection
No, cause it's incredibly easy to have the empathy and wherewithal to realize there is a person there.
Of course your avatar isn't trying to be a person. It's the ability intuit that there is a person writing where that avatar is.
You as a person go beyond just your face. Tone, body movement, vernacular. All of those things are inherently human and can be conveyed without actually looking at a flesh and blood person
it's like I'm talking to someone who has no peripheral vision whatsoever
You're acting like you'd be utterly perplexed if you heard the voice of someone around a corner.
From what I'm seeing, this isn't an actual lawsuit.
It's just people speculating the kinda numbers that a potential lawsuit could reasonably claim.
Display Morevtubers (or YouTubers tbh) are a really low bar and I don’t see their appeal
I can’t see myself ever buying tickets for a virtual idol, for that matter. the energy and spontaneity of a good live show is not being replaced any time soon
I’ve had enough of my young years in front of screens and with covid around. to try and pretend that a cartoon is the same as a human is just a worse option with no real upside.
and to call the difference between humans and well-made code “semantics” is again, concerning
IMHO
I didn't ask you what you think is worth your money or not. It doesn't mattee in the least to me.
And it's not the difference between humans and well made code. It's the difference between people putting on a facade likely thought up by other people and people putting on a facade that was tangibly made by other people.
But they're still people. They didn't code the singing or the talking or the personas.
An avatar doesn't change that. Just like I don't suddenly assume you're not a person and are actually just a chatbot.
because I recognise that that human idol is human and they have a rich inner life of which one part is being an idol
the virtual idol at best is like a movie. Entertaining, well made, and something I could admire as an object created by genuine creatives. But it’s never going to be relatable or sympathetic as a being in itself
This is fucking dumb semantics.
It's not like these virtual idols are all prerecorded Activities with no active engagement with people.
As someone mentioned, some of them are vtubers, which means they actively engage with their audience.
Which compared to some idols who have the bare minimum in terms of active engagement is less movie like.
You're basically saying one is not like the other over a completely arbitrary line.
Display Morethere’s no need to lose your shit over this
human products are not human, simple as that. they have no autonomy, no output that isn’t decided by workmates, no desire to satisfy a creative urge that simply exists
my randomly generated avatar is just that, I do not try to equate it with my humanity. It’s a single shade of a persona, and I acknowledge it as such
Virtual idols are less than human, and frankly it’s quite concerning that you have trouble distinguishing between the two
I just find your reasoning baffling you can in one vein see how your avatar is a representation of yourself, but at the same time can not intuit that the avatars of these singers are fundamentally no different.
What is the essential difference between these avatars and the fake personas that idols put up for you on tv or in person?
They're equally as manufactured and not representative of the person behind them.
yeah, they are inhuman idols. They are not avatars of the human singers, they are products of the work of the singer, illustrator, animators, marketing team etc etc
All of that work combines into something that is inhuman and perfect for the stan who needs parasocial perfection and no humanity whatsoever
This is fucking stupid. The fact that they are actively created and the content prpduced by persons and not an algorithm meams they human products.
They're as easily capable of all the flaws and faux pas of any normal person cause that's all they are. Normal people with an avatar.
Would you call yourself with a randomly generated powerpuff girl avatar an inhuman thing?
Cause what you're doing right now is ostensibly no different than what those idols are doing.
