Denial about what? Hybe wants to diverify and protect itself and stated as such, so what? They don't want grow BTS anymore? Didn't they just sell their souls with Dynamite/ Butter with Columbia taking most of the profits in exchange for global recognition, which worked? J-hope was not in Chicago for Lolla or was that someone else? Jungkook wasn't front stage at the World Cup? Did they not take over Vegas last year and at the same time flex on the Grammys the week before? As I mentioned in a previous post, they are a foreign independent act in an industry not fond of outsiders. Radio and Spotify playlisting is being gate kept from them, unless they give away most if not all profits. What is this "promotion" fans ask for in their specific situation?
Posts by heero081
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It is a reasonably sound business objective, what is the fuss about?
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Tiktok?? Are you serious?? No song on tiktok is able to gain any permanence. Also most songs that go viral on tiktok are already playlisted on Spotify before it picks up. Just a few songs released in a year genuinely go viral
On top of that, tiktok staff recently exposed how they literally have the power to manipulate virality on the app. Why would you want BTS to get involved with such an unjust way of promoting their music?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/e…can-make-anyone-go-viral/
Unjust as opposed to what? And people here praise and beg for more playlisting? Radio and Spotify are literally a gatekeeper platform run by industry stakeholders. My points still stand. As an independent artist, especially from a foreign artist from a foreign label, they won't have the means other signed artist do, that's their reality. That's why I advocated for them to find ways to perform on national / global stages on national television (not cable), and perform to new audiences at large festivals to grow solo careers. It has been proven time and time again, all BTS needs is to be seen publicly to garner attention.
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Lol. 90% instead of 65%? Get real. Throw away millions and millions of income because BTS might make more money? Silliest thing I have ever read. How about they just cancel Suga's world tour then? Easy money not made. How about that solution? So they continue their increase in debt load investing in other companies while at the same time not make money from their largest money generator? Some of the things I read here are literally insane. I'm I taking crazy pills?
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BTS / Bighit / ARMY is literally the biggest grassroots movement in the western music landscape maybe ever for a foreign artist. They are essentially the most successful independent act today in the west. They are forced to work "outside the system". They need to continue to do just that in various ways. They found out the hard way radio promotions for them won't work and they are seeing that playlisting is another issue growing within the system as it is replacing radio in many aspects. Playlisting on spotify is even worse than radio since labels can actually own stakes in spotify rather than having to go through "indies" as a loophole to pay radio companies to get around laws.
They need to continue to build / grow their bubble through more creative and more cost effective means. Since they are based in SK, they have to be more strategic in their appearances. They are already starting to a few things already. J-hope appearing at lolla helped drag in non-fans in a new environment with more experimental / non-pop music. BTS booked to appear on traditional nationwide broadcast such as NYE in times square and JK at the World Cup. BTS have found great success with their appearances on James Corden, especially carpool karaoke. The JK / Charlie Puth collaboration was genius, they essentially got the other artist / label to promote on their behalf. If they continue to perform on US based award shows, I would leverage additional time within the middle of the show and for longer performances. I would also advocate finding effective ways to find viral recognition on tiktok. Hybe should invest in a marketing company dedicated to promote more effectively on trending social platforms, perhaps they will in their acquisition process. Tiktok is a way to get into the TTH playlist through the backdoor.
As a last resort / strategic short term soul selling (whatever you want to call it), they can again try the Dynamite / Butter strategy of having the label itself "produce" / "write" the song and promote it for them, while staying relatively independent. Since Dynamite was an in house production by Columbia, they had the incentive to promote it and better distribute it on radio. However, use this strategy sparingly as a promotion as they don't make much from this song. It was essentially a marketing "promotion" for the group to pull in eyes from the mainstream music audience. A concise, strategic approach with these strategies can go a long way as previously seen. Playlisting on spotify and traditional radio won't be cost effective in their situation if they want to stay independent.
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Well, if this is not the good old ' you peasant fangirls know nothing about business'
You don't need to have an MBA in business to know that they could have handled things better. People often think mistreatment is having an artist in the dungeon or openly sabotaging them. In my mind, it's plenty of both big and small things that could have been done differently but they weren't and not because of incompetence but of greed.
You see it started with simple things fans used to think they were cute and were proud because Hybe was above these things. Things like not posting about the preorder links or not having subtitles in their videos even after BTS broke in the West and the interest in them was in an all time high. Not to mention that the fans had to trend a hashtag worldwide to get subs in paid content.
Then it became more obvious with the 5 dollar budget and an old Samsung iPhone camera for the Dynamite concept and the BE money grab. Still fans thought we should trust Hybe and keep our mouths shut. And in the end that enabled Hybe to start treating both BTS and Armys as cash cows.
The focus shifted towards merch as they released expensive BTS merch almost every day. At some point they spent more money and creativity on merch than the actual comebacks. And let's not forget the multiple games.
One might say that a company will do what it should to make money. But Hybe spent years trying to convince everyone they were different. So it's more hypocritical that they turned into this greedy company that prioritizes profit over the image of their biggest artist and they will try to manipulate the fans in the process.
Moreover they commercialised the BTS image to death in order to fund their other ventures. And that's a hugemistreatment in my eyes.
And based on the fact that even people who used to defend Hybe in the past, when we called the their greed out, are against them themselves now, it shows that their practices alienate more and more of the very people who financed their playing the kpop overlord today.
Anyway I am sure you will disagree and you will make it like I don't know what I am talking about.
Hybe knows best, right? Lol
People on this forum and in the kpop community (men and women) in general consistently display that they really don't. People pointing out basic business practice / common sense on a company matter does not make someone a company defender. This is a forum where there is a literal new post celebrating Hybes disclosure of revenue brought in by BTS over time. Read the thread. The money generated by them is more than much of the industry combined. There is post that literally says "After all the investing Hybe has done, why does BTS contribute 65% to 60% of its revenue?", not realizing the ginormous amount that needs to be covered by other ventures and the short time Hybe has done it. BTS was their literally their only money generator prior to the debut of TXT in 2019. That's why the SM deal is important right now, its an opportunity to perhaps cut the percentages to under 50%. Fans celebrate how big BTS is without realizing in the same breath how big BTS really is when it isn't convenient or support the right "narrative".
People complaining about commercialization on a kpop forum in an industry where most artists can no longer earn on the actual finished products anymore (the music itself) blows my mind. Kpop literally sells the para-social relationships. Nowadays, you can literally enjoy BTS (music and video) for free. No investment from the consumer required, but optional. Merchandise is literally a donation of artist support outside of touring. It's completely optional in today's world.
"Moreover they commercialized the BTS image to death in order to fund their other ventures. And that's a huge mistreatment in my eyes." - Not a fact, but an opinion on "mistreatment". That's easy. So when they re-sign again, lets be honest they will, will they sign up again for "mistreatment" and abuse like stupid idiots? They have no agency or independence on their own to exercise, or are they grown men? This narrative isn't real either. So a company shouldn't commercialize a product (that's literally what kpop is) to invest in other ventures? All money should go back to into BTS (popularity and relevance is finite), just because?
Companies by nature are amoral. Some more ethical than others. Pop music, especially kpop is commercialization of the music industry to the max by design. Hybe is no different in that sense, but this "mistreatment" and "abuse" narrative that gets pushed around like facts by "concerned" fans is simple misinformation. Say what you want, but how can one argue Hybe / Bighit/ BTS isn't a music company that isn't music first? They commercialize it, so what?
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Playlisting is a waste? Album/physicals are only about flexing? Promo doesn't hold much water? I'm really wracking my brain to try to figure out what drove you to write an essay littered with logical fallacies.
I said it was a waste for artists in their unique position, a foreign artist in a niche that is already established that are "outside the system" that are literally owned by entities that don't want Hybe or BTS there. Outside of kpop related playlists, do you really believe the added expense on both the artist and label is worth it? Music is so low margin anyways, how much more do you think they have to gain? People who really care about physicals in the west are a minority. Kpop has brought back physicals/ sales to the west to influence charting to overcome radio and playlisting. People who really love physicals as a medium is a small minority.
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You really said a lot of nonsense here.
Anyone who comes up here to say playlisting don’t do shit for artistes is talking out of their arse. Labels won’t be paying good money to secure hot positions on Spotify Curated playlists if they didn’t see anything to gain from that.
And wth do you mean by BH/BTS are over breaking records? RM literally posted his billboard achievement on his Instagram page and thanked armys. Y’all shouldn’t be here speaking for the guys. You aren’t them
And also if fans/consumers are asking for albums to be shipped on time(which Hybe has no issues doing for all their other groups except BTS ), is being heralded as being success stans, then I guess we are success stans
They are a foreign group singing in a foreign language a small percentage speak on a platform used primarily by westerners that are well established in their niche. Many of the solos released are not commercial releases and more "serious" on top of that. Spotify is now the online "payola" in the west. Labels secure top spots either for industry plants or songs that are almost going viral. Does the industry want Hybe joining their exclusive club? Might want to check out the ownership of Spotify. They don't bend over for the industry like they did in the past. "See early radio promotions."
Who Owns Spotify?Who owns Spotify? Despite it being a publicly traded company, the majority ownership of Spotify remains with its two co-founders, Daniel Ek and Martin…businessmodelanalyst.comMost complaints regarding physicals and shipping on twitter involve charting, there is nothing to argue there.
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HYBE stans are prevalent here so it’s hard to talk common sense when company stans want receipts when they don’t have any themselves. I will try to explain how IMO HYBE makes a lot of stupid decisions that doesn’t even achieve their goal of not relying on BTS.
1. All their “ investments” don’t even have a significant amount of impact on their financial statements. BTS still make up most of their profits with other kpop groups contributing. Where is the impact from their hundreds of million dollar investments like Ithaca, Navar/ YG, Dunamu, etc. and now Quality Control and SM.
2. HYBE ALWAYS overpays for these investments. They really acting like it’s not their money because no way was Ithaca, QC, SM, Navar/YG, Dunamu ever worth what they paid. Dunamu already had a history with scamming and same with SM.
3. HYBE should learn something from BT21 because BT21 probably makes more money and definitely has way more brand deals than BTS. BTS created those characters but I wonder if they make money from them because they should be swimming in money. Passive income should be brand deals and the riskier but way more lucrative product lines that celebrities transition to once their career slows down. Fashion lines, skin care lines, perfume, cosmetics, shoes, etc. etc. BTS would sell a shitload of these type of brand lines. HYBE should also have gone the traditional route of SK entertainment agencies and started agencies for actors/ variety/comedians/ producers who are interested in getting a foothold in the US. Make Scooter work for his money. BTS has relationships with a few talk show hosts and people with connections. HYBE should have bought their building instead of Scooter’s company. HYBE could also invest in 100% producing their own albums and merch instead of spending hundreds of millions on YG+,Dunamu, etc. Also, why is Tiny Tan so much less successful than BT21? The lack of Tiny Tan promotions is ridiculous. At least collab to make a cartoon with them to target kids.
4. I get wanting to reduce dependency on one source of income but you don’t also allow your one source of income to lose momentum, lose the public’s positive view, and most of all make less money. HYBE demanded that SK government give them an answer about BTS’ military exemption and then threw BTS to the wolves. The HYBE executive literally made RM answer questions about it from the media after he was confronted about it. Their answer to Jimin not paying his health insurance premiums was unsatisfactory and then they never addressed Jimin’s private info being made public. Not even a threat of investigation or lawsuit. BTS’ positive image took a beating in SK. Why did HYBE mishandle all this and actually did damage to BTS? The solo support is obviously bare minimum when other agencies support other idol’s solo projects so much better than what BTS has gotten so far. Solo success can contribute a lot to a group’s prestige and success, not to mention make a ton of money. Why is HYBE sacrificing profit to push a false narrative that they are achieving decreased dependence on BTS?
What are these "Hybe stans" are you referring to? The ones that get called company stans basically just bring up basic business / common sense points regarding the company. Where is this corporate pom pom team you speak of?
There seems to be a lack of sense of context here. Hybe is really only relevant as long as BTS is prior to their creation of TXT. In Korea, you're pretty much under the control of a few companies, much worse than the states. Bighit Entertainment was likely going to become a company that had one large group and slowly faded away as BTS lost relevancy. They literally needed to become a "small monopoly" themselves to protect themselves as a company in a very short amount of time. Then you add in their global focus (which also protects them in SK) to become global conglomerate, they would have to take a series of large swings and risk. BTS has given them the unique opportunity to be much larger than a small / mid tier entertainment company in SK. So they took this huge leap.
BTS makes so so much (ARMYs will always bring this up compared to earnings of other companies), of course any new acquisition won't have an immediate impact on their financials. Again, they don't have the luxury of time of slowly building the business through traditional SK means. They also don't have the connections internationally, so they have to acquire them. Do they have to overpay for them? Yes, they do. Normally any successful or semi successful business can't be bought at a discount, especially for a foreign company that is not very large themselves. They are forced to take chances on under-performing companies / distressed companies, otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford them. Other than NFTs / Metaverse, their moves are calculated risks for what they are trying to achieve (Global Music Giant) in their short time window.
SM is necessary not only protect themselves in SK (from Kakao), the IP and labels under them further helps them internationally. It already has an actor management company / production companies / networks/ etc. Possibly kills a platform competitor (Bubble). They need the infrastructure.
Hybe desperately needed to save on distribution, so they purchased a stake in YG+. Also, it helped add content to their Weverse app and solidified alliances to build future ventures.
QC and IT Holdings were plays on industry connections, both with labels and management groups structures Hybe could not build on their own. Are they super money makers? No, but provide the company infrastructure and a shell in the US to work with to improve. The QC deal is not possible without Scooter Braun. The US music industry doesn't want Hybe infiltrating their safe market. They are playing short-handed in the states and in Japan.
Traditional SK company building won't achieve what Hybe wants to do. No time for it. Going international protects them from threats in SK. They don't own BT21, that's why TinyTan exists. They are attempting to build their own IP they fully own. Could it be used better? Sure. If you want to make an argument for Hybe to ask Naver to invest in Line Friend, you could. IT Holdings, Naeco, and YG+ are investments for actors/ comedians / celebrity management, etc. NFTs/ Metaverse is a scam, no argument there.
How did they lose momentum in 2022? List out all those big activities and song releases last year by item. That's a career for most groups / artists. Grammys / Vegas / White House and how many song releases? I'm stunned those dudes didn't die of exhaustion. They really needed a break and they are clearly taking and enjoying that at the moment while they are still producing and releasing stuff. It's inhuman what they are doing. Fans are taking these guys for granted. Then on top of that they want unlimited promotional cycles. Playlisting is a waste of money for both the artist and label for established groups, especially foreign ones in the states. It normally doesn't work in the states unless you have a full label deal or you're an industry plant with a ton of talent (Olivia Rodrigo). They learned the hard way radio promotion while not being signed to US label does nothing and waste money and time for both the label and artist. Most of those solos are going to be "serious" music ventures or passion projects anyways, playlisting won't matter much to be honest. Fans that think all BTS songs should automatically be #1 on Spotify's TTH day 1 is silly. That leaves promotion that involves TV performances/ festivals/ tours that are grueling and it's clear as day not all of them are interested in that.
Hybe will never win a PR battle against the media / GP/ government in SK. Nothing they do would matter here. Kpop is still niche in SK now among the GA. They need to export. Also saying they were left to the wolves regarding enlistment is being a little dramatic here? They were going to take some beat downs no matter what Hybe said or didn't say. Everyone knows they will likely re-sign with Hybe, as they get unparalleled creative input. When that happens are they still going to be the battered wife that needs saving and protection? Now do you really believe a public company would intentionally lose money just because BTS was making it for them, come on. This is the more ridiculous things I have read on this forum. Why don't they just cancel Yoongi's tour to decrease BTS dependence? People are reading too many articles made by minority Hybe stakeholders and the financial industry looking for clicks. Promotions cost money and resources.
Prior to the debut of TXT in early 2019, BTS made up 100% of revenue. It is around 65% to 60% now, just being conservative before the QC and possible SM acquisitions. If they get a hold of SM, they might have a chance of getting it to 50% and below in the near future. This is an accomplishment in this time period considering the huge amounts BTS make as a whole.
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The creative freedom part and better contract terms with more money is why they all will renew, IMO too.
Jin has already spoken about renewing, Namjoon recently thanked the company for giving him a good environment to work on his album. They are giving each of the boys the kind of solo promo the boys desire. Yoongi always spoke about touring and that has been arranged for him. Joon had a dream of performing for a small crowd, that was arranged too. Jimin may have asked for music shows, so he is doing that. Just some of the many examples of certain things the company is doing right.
There are several things they have done poorly too such as effed up album/physical deliveries and bare minimum playlisting. By no means is everything perfect but as much as I may have my grouses with the company, I still do believe Hybe is the best bet for them in the Kpop label sphere with ideally them being given their own sub-label.
The "promotion" narrative is overplayed.
Playlisting is such a waste of money for an artist / label and isn't very effective most times unless you are under a label deal (Universal/ Sony/ Warner), especially for a foreign artist singing in a foreign language and an established one. It really only works for an industry plant with a ton of talent as well "Olivia Rodgrigo". BTS only has a distribution deal (good for them), they are really protected from most of the industry in the west because of it. Those solo releases are going to be more "serious" music releases and "passion projects" anyway. Playlisting won't do much regardless.
Most of the album / physical complains don't really have much to do with getting their products, but with being able to "flex" on other stans and achievement records. BTS / Bighit seem to be over breaking "records" and begging the western music industry for recognition (this is a good thing).
This is why the "promotion" angle doesn't hold much water.
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Those guys will likely re-sign. They have too much creative freedom not to. However, they still will be considered "mistreated" by some.
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It's a terrible idea indeed but this is what happens when megalomania and greed take control.
Hybe wants to rule over the kpop industry and they won't stop until they succeed or until they fail.
It used to be a company that could take pride in focusing on creativity, good music and wanting to help fans have a great kpop experience.
But all that preaching in those press conferences look hypocritical now that all they care about is buying companies left and right. Profits at whatever cost is their main concern, even to the detriment of their biggest artist image and career.
They spend hundreds of millions recklessly to build an empire, money that was hard earned mainly by their biggest act, and they can't even treat them right and not as cash machines.
They want to buy other companies with plenty of artists when they can't even manage the BTS group and solos comebacks properly.
I won't hope for their downfall for the sake of all the artists but I won't be surprised if it happens at some point.
On this site, I keep seeing this narrative that BTS is being "mistreated" and not getting proper "promotion", but no one really gives a good business answer or a common sense answer, especially when it comes to the west. All I see is a bunch of fanboy / fangirl response treating the group as a bunch of victims that are in dire need of saving.
Can someone give me better investment strategies that make sense and keep a small company alive? Aren't companies supposed to leverage resources produced by money makers to grow?
Anyone with common sense can see what Hybe is attempting to do here, they are trying become one of the global music big four (Universal/ Sony/ Warner). I find it ironic that there are fans hoping / praying for their downfall that the group helped build from the ground up. Because if Hybe succeeds globally it would go down as one of the biggest stories in the music business industry. BTS would be considered legendary in the industry. What "flex" would be better?
Can someone enlighten me?
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Damn. This is so ridiculous. Companies with slave lobor, harassment, and racist problems get treated better than HYBE it seems. More stupidity.
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Finally, someone with actual common sense in this thread. No business with any common sense actively diminishes their best brand and money maker.
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I'm normally a lurker on this forum as I enjoy reading other perspectives, but I do have to say this is most ridiculous discussion I have ever seen as business minded person.
