Posts by heero081

Quote from tetetete

??

bts made money too and bts spotify numbers shot up like crazy

within 1 year of dynamite, bts started pulling in 20m daily spotify streams, their ml started stabilizing around 35-40 million and lets not start with the post-dynamite merch collabs that keep on coming even till this day (the latest one being with lego)

Dynamite and Butter were special cases. Look at the main writers and producers form those tracks. There is specific reason why those tracks were given full out support by Columbia. Those were Columbia in-house productions, even the damn CEO had writing credits on Butter. Little to no production/ writing input from BTS and HYBE. So basically, Columbia made / will continue to make most if not all the direct profits from the music itself. Those songs were "promotions" for BTS the group. HYBE / Bighit / BTS really only made profit from the residual impact (improving the profile of BTS to the global stage). The strategy worked, but don't get it twisted that those were "BTS" songs that Columbia "promoted". They essentially sold their creative and financial souls for those two tracks. However, you are right. They make money on the after effects obviously from the success gained using those tracks.

Quote from Afriyieau1

The key point here is that BTS don’t need to sign with any label before they get these promos

CR did it fine when they were only distributors for BTS. So far BH has been giving subpar promo along with geffen. But I doubt the point lies with geffen because they promote Newjeans fine

So at the end of the day I still think BH is the reason why we won’t get any shit done

Throwing remixes at us won’t solve the core problem that Jimin needs to promote his song to new listeners. That’s how you grow

Geffen does jack but put the albums on the shelves for distribution. Same for Columbia. I explained earlier why Columbia did anything special for BTS. Columbia literally made most if not all the money on Dynamite / Butter. Hybe / Bighit / Jimin pay the payola for Spotify / radio or they don't. It's really that simple.

Quote from CandyHeart

lmao, not gonna waste to much time on your type

but jimin is out there breaking pretty much every imaginable record for a ksoloist (and even for most groups), but hybe - compared to their rookie groups - can't do the bare minimum. it's not happening because it's clear hybe is protecting their cash cow wisely, but UMG would manage bts 10 times as smart as hybe in the west.

anyway, back to supporting jimin.

My type? That's flattering and original. Got anything useful to add to the discussion on the industry and the topic? Looks like you don't. That's fine, don't expect much from you either. Being a near monopoly in the industry and owning a stake in the spotify platform doesn't make UMG all that smarter.

No surprise with the sales to radio ratio, that makes sense. Unfortunately, radio will almost be zero for them due to the circumstances.

Quote from CandyHeart

i used to always stand behind this decision - not joining a US label to keep hybe in full control - but seeing how insanely incompetent and even, to a certain level, sabotaging hybe has become towards bts, can't say UMG getting some influence would hurt... at least UMGs focus wouldn't be downplaying bts to make their other groups seem bigger.

This isn't happening, stop it. This narrative needs to end. People getting bothered by stock analysis articles meant for shareholders written by external HYBE stakeholders is not sabotage. UMG would want something in return, BTS is fine as they are.

Quote from mysterikmagick

And still BTS's popularity skyrocketed and HYBE had their highest profits ever. Also super curious how HYBE's "concerns" about K-pop's "growth slowing down" will impact their future promotion styles and decisions on how they budget for releases. Their stubbornness and unwillingness see what's right in front of them is amazing but also incredibly frustrating.

TLDR: HYBE, Like Crazy is a hit, a real hit. Do something about it.

If BTS wants to go creativity bankrupt for commercial success in the states, HYBE / BTS can strategically do that if they so wish to let all royalties go in the future. If Jimin HYBE is cool with sacrificing future royalties to promote him, then that is mainly Jimin's prerogative on spotify. For radio? Forget about it, song has to be PSY viral to get the impact you are seeking.

Quote from tetetete

again i reiterate that they have a whole american hybe business division headed by scooter braun so all of this talk about American labels doesn't even matter...

How does it not matter? HYBE America is nothing in the states at the moment. They are not a distributor and don't really have a label BTS can even sign to that makes sense. This lack of leverage affects the cost of payola or "promotion" if you want to be nice about it that HYBE / BIGHIT / Jimin have to pay to get the same level of "support" the big 3 artist can acquire. Scooter's influence is being exaggerated here.

Quote from tetetete

they dont pay anything they just give a portion of their royalty to spotify

it doesn't matter to jimin anyways because he is going to make major bank from the album sales and any merch sales he chooses to have, i doubt he worries about streaming royalties from 1 song of a 5 song album lmao

If that is Jimin's prerogative that's up to him, but we need to update this narrative that only the label ends up paying payola, especially indie labels. Both label and artist share the burden.

Quote from mysterikmagick

I'm very aware of all the lore of how stars and born, bred, and promoted in the West. Obviously there's been times where HYBE was willing to benefit from much heavier promotion styles (Columbia-led) which gave them incredible results. The more interesting question is why they have so much trouble navigating this on their own (well, "with Geffen"), and for SUCH a GP-friendly bop in this case to go without a real push towards casual listeners would be very disappointing.

That said I have a strong feeling we're going to see it on TTH shortly.

There is a reason why Columbia backed Dynamite and Butter both on radio and spotify, etc. Those songs were in basically in-house productions, even the CEO had writing credits on Butter. Columbia had all to gain from that collaboration since those were their songs and they were distributing. HYBE and BTS made pretty much nothing from those songs directly and had little to no involvement on production / writing. Those songs essentially were promotions for BTS the group. All BTS and HYBE got from that was the residuals of that deal (that paid big dividends in the end). They essentially sold their creative and financial souls for those tracks. The promotion tactic used here is Columbia makes most of the money and hopefully HYBE / BTS benefit. Let's not get it twisted that those were "BTS" songs being used here.

Like I mentioned in a previous post earlier in another trend. Payola cost artist money, and more money for those outside the big 3.

Quote from tetetete

all of this matters for long term contracts

i'm talking about pushing 1 song every 3-4 months and these are tracks that are charting on us spotify

trust me its not that difficult for hybe to do it

Did you not read what was written? It cost a non big 3 label / artist much more for that privilege. In general, all labels / artist only push one song anyways. The more payola paid, the more Jimin himself likely loses on that song since he is the artist. Long term / short term, it doesn't really matter. Artist end up paying. The question is how much?

Quote from turtleneckjoon

True, i think people in akp (army and non-army) also forget the tricky situation of bts alone (not hybe) as big artist without US’ big 3 label involvement. As much as it is about bts, payola system is there also to keep big 3’s chokehold on every layer in the industry. Like, what’s the point of signing under them if the payola/ butter up price is same between their artist and indie ones?

And you’re right that it’s always the artist that get the pay the cost of payola in US. It’s in distribution and marketing part of the contract and the reason why the bigger the artist is, the more playlist and airplay they get because there is more money to gamble on if the artist consent to pay

Yes and add to that. BTS is not directly signed under any big 3 label. They only have a distribution deal in the states. How much more do they have to spend to keep that independence? UMG won't give them the label support as Olivia Rodrigo and those under their label.

Quote from tetetete

All I'm saying is bighit have enough connections to get the song on tth and there are no moral reasons stopping them from putting it there

Of course they can pay for the payola if Spotify allows, the question I always raise when it comes to spotify is at what cost to the label / artist? It's not about morality, never has been, it always about how much is the payola. Even if the payola charge was the same for all labels / artists, should a non big 3 label / artist be paying them? What are the royalties to both label and artist are willing to be sacrificed and can everyone here agree that Spotify advantages is the new payola? Where is the assumption that only the label loses money and not the artist for these promotion methods come from? No song that uses these methods of promotion can be deemed purely "organic".

Quote from notbored

hybe just has very next level dedicated fans fans but these numbers don't meaning nothing when the songs free fall as soon the the promo time ends

At the end of the day, regardless of payola or mediaplay. If the public deem it worthy, then it will be deemed worthy. Music matters at the end.

Quote from mysterikmagick

this is a gross oversimplification of how things work

The music industry in general is very simple really, its gotten even less complicated the last 10 years or so with the rise of spotify. What are these complexities are you referring to? Remember all the warm and fuzzy love BTS / Bighit received first arrived in the states with their "Radio" promotions that now relates to a whopping 10 or so spins or whatever they get today as an established artist. Yet somehow an artist never heard from or seen before publicly emerges that every radio station everywhere is suddenly aware of all at at the same time? You can guess the artist and label, btw. I was being told she was just random girl singing in the bedroom at night.

Quote from ForgottenSoul

Anyone can pay for playlisting doesnt really have to do with infulence really.

Google the shareholders of Spotify, notice what you see. Google on the "process" of spotify's playlisting policies. It's literally a committee of "curators". Then read about the spotify curator companies "owned" by the big 3 labels. They are literal gatekeepers of the industry. Any indie label / artist of any foreigner is at a disadvantage. "Anyone" can buy a ferrari, but it cost "more" for outsiders. And as an added bonus when it comes to Spotify, the curators still have option of not letting you buy in at the end of the day as they see fit.

Quote from tetetete

I remember very well when Demi Lovato's song had no TTH playlisting and scooter replied on twitter that he would look into it and it magically appeared on tth the very next day

So you're saying he is the largest most important acquisition in the history of the music industry and Hybe underpaid for his companies?

Quote from tetetete

Not this bs when bang pd goes on play dates with scooter braun

So they are on the big 3 level of influence in the states now? That's news to me. Scooter Braun has the power to get industry payola discounts the big 3 have on his own on both radio and spotify? If this this true, then Hybe got a steal of the century buying him out. But wait, I thought I was hearing around here that Hybe made a bad investment. Now there are people who say its a good investment? Which is it?

Quote from tetetete

The song debuted at 23 on global spotify while jimin debuted at top 2

Yet he gets tth playlist cover while jimin gets nothing

I don't expect the industry to play fair when it comes to BTS but I expect atleast bighit to put in all their efforts but maybe even that is asking too muchScreenshot_2023-03-26-19-22-04-01_0438eb925998df20b3482ec25499d226.jpg

It's more expensive for Hybe / Jimin to pay the payola than (Warner / UMG / Columbia) artists and labels as an outsider. They would literally have to give the songs away for free (royalties).

Hybe / Jimin massively pay for the spotify payola or they don't. Its really simple. It won't get radio BTW unless its PSY viral and the radio industry has no choice.

I keep telling people spotify is by far the worse thing that has happened to the industry as a whole. Artists and labels from foreign countries or domestic indie labels are at the mercy of a few stakeholders. Unlike radio, big labels can actually own a legal stake in the platform without the need of other third parties. Spotify is all payola at this point. No one should be ask be asking for playlisting, discovery mode, preferred streaming treatment, etc.