Posts by heero081

Quote from possiblymaybe

We made it It's truly hard to watch your favorite group stumble so bad, but it's also sweet to see them get their mojo back

Quote from possiblymaybe

BTS wasted the last two years of their career not releasing this kind of music. i don't care, i don't care. RM and now Jimin's albums especially are exactly what I knew they were capable of, and I'm glad I didn't drop them because now I know for sure I was right. Congrats Jimin on a successful debut.

Weren't those just bonus tracks for western commercial success, (which worked)? They did release a track talking about losing their passion creatively (Black Swan), just when they were going to say deuces / hiatus. The stuff they releasing now was stuff being worked on during the pandemic times and downtime. I would disagree that was a waste.

Spotify is the new "radio" in the industry, just worse version of it. Been saying this since forever. This is bad for both the label and artist.

Quote from hieuken

you can just say BH sucks at their promotion.

Considering how much BTS make money for them despite the hiatus, I don't think some playlisting cost that much.

Doesn't cost that much, really? Must be cheap for everyone then. Everyone can buy #1 on TTH. And you do know it's not just the labels paying for the playlisting, right? It affects the artist as well.

Quote from paradis

You are so absurd with this contention, BTS should retire then? First you claim they should not do it cause its a new form of payola, now you say they should not do it cause it will fail as no one wants them??

Who said they should retire? They are doing great. They are relevant in the industry while being industry "outsiders". All I stated were the circumstances regarding Hybe/ BTS status / situation in the industry. Spotify play-listing is payola, that is a fact. They are at a big disadvantage and that whatever they do will be more expensive / take more resources, etc. Sony and UMG legit own stake in Spotify. Conflicts of interest galore. Look at the warm reception industry and radio gave them when they first arrived, notice how those "promos" faded over time. Are you arguing the "industry" wants them there wants them to "stay"? The new frontier in the industry is play-listing, independent labels and indie artist need to be more strategic, especially foreign ones like they are. Payola is expensive for both the label and artists, especially in their unique situation.

Quote from sadsavely

I don't think OP is trying to praise either, just pointing out how Hybe continues to have negative effort for Bangtan solo work

So who is paying? The label? The artist? Both? The "industry" doesn't want Hybe or BTS there. They want the company, group, and their fans to go away and not disrupt their status quo. There is a reason why their radio promos faded after time, it was too costly for both label and artist. Same thing happening here.

Quote from paradis

Yes everyone in the world should get playlisting, even when they aren't established or have sufficient streams, but not BTS solos cause they are supposed to be the ones to uphold ethics and integrity in the industry. Also your distribution only remark is bullshit cause BTS have received playlisting as a group on the biggest playlists while being in a distribution only deal.

If you are referring to "Dynamite" and "Butter", you might want to check who "produced" and "wrote" those songs and think about why it received industry "support". Those songs were literally "promos" for the group.

Ah yes the play-listing complaint. People don't understand spotify play-listing is literally the new "payola" in the industry, worse than than the old radio system.

Spotify are literal gatekeepers.

Behind the Playlists: Your Questions Answered by Our Playlist Editors – Spotify for Artists

This piece is part of our ongoing mission to create a greater sense of understanding around playlisting.

artists.spotify.com

Spotify’s Head Of Music Explains How To Get On Playlists

Demystifying Spotify playlists and the editors who make them.

www.forbes.com

The 3 big labels own playlist curation companies

Major Labels Are Paying for Placement on Top Spotify Playlists - Digital Music News

Major labels own Spotify playlists and there is no indication given that these lists are owned by the majors. They are presented as unbiased mood playlists.

www.digitalmusicnews.com

Two labels (Sony and UMG) own around 7% of Spotify

Who Really Owns Spotify?

According to a flurry of new SEC filings, financial giants now claim big chunks of the streaming service

www.rollingstone.com

BTS is a foreign independent artist (distribution deal only)

This can't be stressed enough. The artist literally has to be under one of the "big" labels, an industry plan, or literally has to give up royalties, etc to get this play-listing.

Musicians Say Streaming Doesn’t Pay. Can the Industry Change? (Published 2021)

Services like Spotify and Apple Music pulled the business back from the brink. But artists say they can’t make a living. And their complaints are getting…

www.nytimes.com

It can be argued independent can make more streaming by not being under a label

An Indie Music Expert Explains Why Artists Are Turning Away From Record Deals

“People know not to trust the music industry anymore,” says Ditto Music CEO Lee Parsons

www.rollingstone.com

People complained about paying payola for radio but want to praise play-listing for spotify?

This is more expected than surprising. So why is it so hard for Hybe to replicate this kind of economic impact? It should be a piece of cake from what I'm being told here.

Quote from pchromo4

To put it bluntly, it messes with billboard charting. Sure you can say BTS don't have anything left to prove but it's a weak excuse to me because delaying album shipments had no positive effects, only negative. So to me either 1) Hybe are incompetent to the point it's concerning or 2) delays were done on purpose as an act of sabotage which is even more concerning. I don't know the real reason. I just know it doesn't make any sense and BTS deserved better.

Depends. Physicals can help in the short term on position in BB, however if the song doesn't catch on with non-fans, it's just short lived anyway and it drops positions. Delayed or staggered physical shipments can still provide some stability to help find an audience while still on the chart. Especially for a song this is more a "grower" than "instant" hit. It goes back to my previous points regarding more emphasis on "records" and "achievements" rather than "loving" physical media. BTS makes money regardless if its day 1 or day 30. The song still needs to stand on its own.

Quote from 134340Moonchild

😂Sounds like SM is an even worse investment than I originally thought. What’s your next move HYBE? Hopefully it’s smarter than it has been because being scammed into paying more than market value by a desperate LSM was a bad start. Should’ve negotiated that price. Kakao really looking like the smarter company.

Kakao is smarter by legit breaking laws?

Quote from jeansjeansjeans

https://www.kedglobal.com/merg…/newsView/ked202302230011

My goodness, this is worst deal for SM as a company than I thought. Full domestic and global distribution rights in perpetuity and they gave their ticketing rights in perpetuity away as well. And for what, a small capital increase that likely won't cover global ventures they want to fund? Then screwing all current SM shareholders big and small after trying to appeal to them against a "hostile" takeover by Hybe, by diluting their shares in favor of Kakao to buy them for peanuts? All shareholder will need to back Hybe here in this situation.

Damn, SM was going to transfer distribution "rights" to Kakao, seemingly permanently going forward. That's a big thing to giveaway to a company with less than 10% ownership.

Quote from 134340Moonchild

You must work for HYBE because your illogical reasoning must be why HYBE is out there being scammed into paying more than these "investments" are worth. Also, if you somehow are ignorant in how HYBE has done very little to support BTS' solos then you are a lost cause. HYBE has demonstrated clearly that they have no interest in making BTS more popular and want to focus on other groups. So yes, they aren't putting in the effort to maximize BTS' earning potential but BTS is still embarassing HYBE. The goal of decreasing dependency on BTS is still a dream.

Again. No one else has listed details on what these mysterious "promotions" are in relation to the west.

Quote from pchromo4

Tbh I'm not as concerned over their Western promotions; I know some fans are mad about the lack of playlisting and I think those concerns are fair but ultimately we don't know the convos that go on between the members and management and all we can do is trust that hopefully the members get to do what they want - whether that's Lolla for Jhope, a solo tour for Suga, etc. What's more concerning for me is the album roll outs - truly don't understand why it's been so hard to just release physical albums in a timeline that makes actual sense, like how Hybe does for literally everyone else in their subsidiaries.

I also don't have a lot of faith in some of Hybe's bigger business decisions (Ithaca and now this SM mess) but that's separate from their handling of BTS - all it does is drive home for me that Hybe has their own objectives, I'm doubtful whether those objectively truly will benefit BTS down the line, and as a result I don't feel the need to support the company as an entity despite liking their music production as a whole.

First of all. I want to thank you for having this discussion with me. I really appreciate it. This can really be a weird place. I understand the frustration with the album roll outs and delays. But I would like to ask, does it really affect the promotion of a song that much for the general audience / non-fans if the song is good or catchy?

The SM deal is literally a self-preservation move on the part of Hybe in SK from Kakao. Pretty much the main objective there. The IT Holdings move was a connections move designed to buy influence and an american home base with already build infrastructure. I know Scooter is lousy, but he was instrumental in getting BTS to the White House in the states. Many of these acquisitions are essentially shells with potential. It's very difficult for a smaller foreign company to buy a perfect businesses at a discount, unfortunately.

Quote from pchromo4

Flexing only works if BTS are getting tangible returns on the glory. And clearly many fans feel BTS individually are not top priorities for the company - I don't have any strong opinion on that, personally I also feel BTS likely get enough say to influence their promotions. However, it seems pointless to brag that BTS money is taking the company and their other products to greater heights when that money isn't being primarily invested into BTS. Do BTS even care about Hybe reaching UMG status? Personal opinion of course but Jin and RM both sold part of their Hybe shares so that already gives me a clue on their investment into Hybe.

At the end of the day, the biggest "flex" to me for BTS is not what HYBE becomes but where their individual and collective careers are. And I'm increasingly doubtful that those are mutually inclusive goals.

Your explanation for why BTS' shares were gifted gets down the crux of the issue. Hybe is Bang Sihyuk's company. It is not BTS's company. And the majority of glory will belong to Bang Sihyuk, especially if/as Hybe grows better. So using the argument that fans can "flex" on how big Hybe grows isn't very compelling for me as a fan.

Unfortunately, you are right that Hybe is not tangibly "owned" by BTS. Also, unfortunately BTS is a literal "product" of BigHit / Hybe, they are a manufactured pop group at the end of the day. I know that's cold to say and to hear, but it is what it is. However, they are business partners at this time. But as I laid out both BTS and Hybe positions in the west and their surroundings. What more could they really do in the west promotions wise that are cost effective, while not singing an english track produced by their distributing label without playlisting and radio?

Quote from pchromo4

You literally never addressed my original point which is that HYBE glory is NOT the same as BTS glory so don't expect fans to support Hybe due to some misplaced pride in BTS. HYBE is overly reliant in BTS, yes, everyone can see that. So why did BTS only collectively get 1% of shares when the company went public? Why does Scooter Braun have more Hybe shares than BTS as a group?

I apologize for not addressing your previous point. The two entities will be tied together regardless what you or I think about it. If Hybe can achieve is objectives, most if not all credit will be given to BTS / BangPD from a historical standpoint like Apple (Jobs) or Amazon (Bezos) as an important foundation figure. That's how it will be seen in the business / music world. I shouldn't say fans "need" to support Hybe, what I should say if Hybe did get as big as UMG, etc, many fans would find a way to "flex" on that and rightfully so. That would happen in that scenario.

BangPD did gift his own personal shares to them and gave them the opportunity to buy more. The IT Holdings deal was large deal to acquire Scooter Braun's company and had to issue stock to current IT Holding shareholders. It's not a personal thing or "slight" to BTS, people need to get over that. That's what was needed to get the deal done. So is it being argued that BangPD was sitting back thinking "Damn, I need to screw over BTS when I have to issue appropriate shares to shareholder's of the acquired company? People don't realize what a large scale deal it was for a company like Hybe at the time, it wasn't like the Source Music and Pledis acquisitions in any capacity.

Also, BangPD doesn't have to "gift" BTS shares, there is no set standard on that kind of thing. It's great that he did. Both parties agreed to it and deemed it "appropriate". Could he have given more? Who deems what appropriate? What's appropriate for the fans to be happy? 1% each? 5% each? 10% each? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the share "gift" was given when they signed their current contract before these other deals were done. I'm sure money, etc will come up when the contract needs to be signed and both parties will be happy. Will the fans? Probably not? But it's really not up for us to say, is it?

Quote from byakuyav

In case you haven't noticed, we don't like company stans here.

I see. So no discussion on the actual points made, but resort to category name calling due to facts? No one can address the points anymore. Understood!

Quote from byakuyav

If there are points you would like to address, I'm all ears, =).

Quote from byakuyav

Why does this new user sound like a alt of our forum's famous HYBE stan?

I'm new actually. Just injecting some common sense here.

Growing BTS and creating less dependency on them are not mutually exclusive objectives. They are growing BTS they same way they have always been during their time in the west. Literally nothing has changed other than giving up on radio promotions like I had mentioned before in a previous post. I have already described the options available to them for their specific situation. Remove Playlisting / Radio. What are they not doing as a foreign independent artist?

Prior Promotions

Big events / Special Events

TV appearances on national broadcast

Collaborations w/ western artist

Award show performances

Sacrificing Profit for Recognition and Reach (Dynamite)

New Additional

Solo appearance at large festivals (J-Hope)

Apply the above to solo work

Reduce reliance on BTS

SM acquisition

Quality Control

New artist / Touring

They are doing both at the same time. What is so hard to understand this point? People like to flex and point how much BTS makes while at the same time not acknowledge how much more they really make and how difficult it is to replicate that income. That takes time. From 2019 (before TXT) to now, they went 100% to around 65% now prior to QC and SM. BTS makes more than entire companies / industry. Don't you think it would take time to earn comparable income?