Cheer Up. Not everything is about stats. CU is easily among the most impactful Kpop songs of all time.
Also, don’t bother quoting me. I won’t change my mind.
Well OP specifically said "based on Korean chart"
Posts by Spsnowflakes
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Yeah, I get what you mean.
I was actually more referring to who was the top at which time: in early 2nd gen times that was DBSK, but when their break up diminished them, Super Junior where they dominated at the top, until EXO became super popular and Big Bang had their comeback(s) again after a hiatus, now unhindered by DBSK's presence.
Yeah I know you're talking abt top #1 group. It's just that sentence I quote before sound kinda weird to me Ig.
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So I guess the 2014 contract renewal of SHINee never happened, it turned out to be just an unfounded rumor?
Well idk abt that. Regarding my answer, Maybe I misunderstood your previous post? I thought you're confused why Shinee renew their contract in 2014 eventho they debuted in 2008, so basically 6 years after debut not 7 years.
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Yeah, I agree TVXQ clearly dominate the early 2nd gen era. It's just I think this sentence "before EXO and BB went off to megastardom" when you talked abt Suju kinda indicate that Super Junior got big first before Bigbang, and I don't really agree with that. Bigbang got big way before Suju get their 1st mega hit "Sorry Sorry", to the point of BB being pitted to TVXQ, is what I'm trying to say Ig.
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Maybe it's better to determine who were the top groups in the first place?
Problem with that is that it depends on what you're basing it on, digitals, physicals, popularity (Korean + international) or a combi of them all?
And what if one group excels in 2 areas and another excels in another 2 in the same time period?
As far as I can determine, these were the top groups:
girl groups:
- Wonder Girls (early 2nd gen era)
- SNSD (mid+late 2nd gen era): clear #1 top group, they far outdistanced other groups in popularity and physicals, and a number of years also in digitals
- TWICE (early+mid 3rd gen era)
- BP (past 2 years)
boy groups:
- DBSK/TVXQ (early 2nd gen era)
- Super Junior? For a brief period of time, after TVXQ's issues and before EXO and BB went off to megastardom, Super Junior did best in physicals, fanbase, and even had some digital major hits
- EXO (mid/late 2nd gen era): EXO had the physicals, topped and sometimes shared international popularity and had some digital hits
- BigBang (mid/late 2nd gen era): BB were the uncontested kings of digitals, at least in the years they had their comebacks, dominated popularity in SK and shared international popularity with EXO, but their physicals were lacklustre, with 5 and more 2nd gen groups surpassing them in sales per album
- BTS (3rd gen era)
All other successful groups were never really the top group.
Bigbang went off to megastardom with their song "Lies" in 2007/2008 imo. Ppl used to pitted them with TVXQ (before their broke up) back then.
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The 2nd gen is all over the place because
1) The biggest traditional boy group with the biggest fanbase/album sales essentially disbanded just as they were peaking (TVXQ), which allowed other groups to go and top the physical sales. TVXQ dropped Mirotic, which was their biggest song and best seller (first kpop group album in years to sell 500k+) and then straight after that had all their issues and were never the same. So you've essentially got the biggest traditional bg crippled as they were still peaking in the 2nd gen.
2) The most popular group with the public/most consistent digital act of the gen in Big Bang did not consistently release as a group year after year. It's not like the current gen where a BTS/Twice/BP have not gone a year from debut without releasing songs. Big Bang would do sub-units/solos and not do any group releases in certain years so certain years they're not even in the running even though they were probably still more popular digitally.
3) Kpop groups putting out solos and sub-units was much more common. Group were very Korean-centric relatively speaking so you'd get loads more solos, sub-units, actors etc. They were not as focused on group music as the 3rd gen
Imo, if not bcs of BTS the 3rd gen will be all over the place as well. I can see an unending debate abt "Blackpink vs EXO vs Twice, who's #1" happening often. In a way, their dynamic as a top groups kinda reminds me of "TVXQ vs SNSD vs Bigbang" somehow.
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A lot of Kpop fans rn seems to think Shinee was a top groups, but iirc during 2nd gen/early 3rd gen era most fans considered them as an 'upper-tier-but-not-top-tier' group lol. Basically, a group right below top tier, not in the same league as an actual top groups from 2nd gen like TVXQ, SNSD, SUJU, Bigbang.
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Display More SHINee debuted in 2008. Does this mean they didn't have a 10 year contract or even a 7 year contract with SM?
Because (some) people are saying the only reason that so many SM artists stick around even after 7 years, is because SM has 10 year and 10+ year contracts - which I consider farfetched.
But SM was the example that got mentioned the most regarding longterm 'slave contracts' that lasted far beyond the now required 7 years.
However, if SHINee really did extend their contract in their 6th year after debut, this'd mean that that narrative already wasn't true for most of SM's 2nd gen groups.
Afaik, it's possible for some groups or members to sign the contract way before their debut, so even if Shinee debuted in 2008, some/all members might've been considered as a Shinee's member and were already bound by contract before 2008. Thats why it might be possible for the contract expiration date to come before a group reach their 7th anniversary mark since debut.
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If you have time, how would you rank Wonder Girls, KARA, Super Junior, and TVXQ songs?
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No, I don't miss the "?", maybe it's the tone of the question or I just read it wrongly lel.
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Well internet virals are an entire different class by themselves. What is said of Gangnam Style can also be said of other cases like Kolaveri Di or Macarena, they don't necessarily pull fans into that particular industry or genre.
Nevertheless I do think it helps Kpop now, when people make the connection.
My expectation bar or rather 'wish' is that Kpop, global music should be able to transcend language barriers, like what Bong Joon ho mentioned, overcome the 1 inch barrier of subtitles.
Yeah, I can see from your replies, that's what you want. But to say
"So BTS is like ABBA, then?
For all their massive success, ABBA did not make Swedish music famous, just themselves." is kinda a discredit to them imo. Cause while it's not the direction you wished for, they still made a progress for Kpop regardless (I'm just repeating myself atp lol).
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Honestly that's why I mention Gangnam Style, despite how massive it was on internet, I don't think it really affected other Kpop acts as a whole back then.
And Gangnam Style is very "Korean", produce by Korean ppl, sang by a Korean man who fit into 'Old Asian Man' stereotype, it's MV was directed by a Koreans, etc. Yet from what I see, some ppl who watched and listened to it don't even realized that its Korean. So I don't think just by being 100% Korean will bring something to Kpop itself ngl, just my 2 cents.
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As I said, progress depends on perspective.
100% non-English is becoming impossible, given the global reach of English since colonization and US world order.
As long as it is not 100% English..
So then tell me, what makes a song Kpop? Just the label ownership?
Thats not my point in the first place, even back then Kpop have been trying releasing English songs, having Western producer, etc. But the results were meh. Right now Kpop basically doing the same thing, but it's showing a much better result. So by definition it is a progress.
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I have alot to say but I don't wanna derail the discussion from the main topic so I'll just add to your point here.
People need to understand that US market is important because of touring more than anything. Average ticket price in the US is as much as 1.5 times that of anywhere else in the world. Since the culture promotes going out to events, concerts or anything else (even for no reason) much more than any other country kpop is relevant in. So I personally think kpop should continue to try breaking into the US. Even if you get very small portion of the pie that's gonna be beneficial.
Mte, some people are too obsessed for Kpop to be "mainstream" imo. Like, if its not mainstream then it's not worth it. Eventho rn looking at the chart and sales Kpop are gaining more followers than ever before.
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"progress" depends on perspective.
I hope it is Korean songs sung by Kpop (HanguKpop) doing better in US, than EnguKpop.
BTS seems to have achieved that some, even their Korean songs have traction.
Otherwise given than most of pop genres come from the West, the lyrics in English, often the background team songwriters, arrangements etc. not Koreans, how of of Kpop would it be if only the performers are Koreans?
Lol, if thats the case it is a progress then. Cause Kpop songs and albums from previous generation were not 100% by Korean either (even the performers were not 100% Korean). Yet Kpop rn can make much more noise compared to before.
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So BTS is like ABBA, then?
For all their massive success, ABBA did not make Swedish music famous, just themselves.
Kind of reflects with McDonald's BTS meal.
Had it included say Kimchi in 50 countries it sold/sells, then it would have been something.. but selling French fries, Cajun sauce, Coca-cola and McNuggets - with BTS for the promotion.... well.
Like that... if it does not end up getting the western audience listen to Korean songs, then Kpop won't sustain as a distinct entity in the west. But of course Kpop companies can still make money by diluting any distinctiveness... sell more BTS meals -no kimchi.
While that might be true, at least a lot of current Kpop groups are doing miles better than Kpop groups from previous generation in U.S/Western market, I even think rn as a whole Kpop in U.S/Western market is a lot better compared to it during the height of Gangnam Style era. So, thats still something Ig, there's progress.
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Overall, it seems like only BTS and TWICE would really be able to compete with or do better than 2nd gen in Japan.
Yeah, 3rd gen are being hard carried by BTS and Twice in Japan imo.
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